"Logic Pro X will eventually be sandboxed"

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Crandall1 wrote:There's a further tinfoil hat conspiracy theory, at least among my fellow developers, that iOS and OS X are headed for a merge. Logic is a fairly small piece of the Apple Ecosystem, at least financially, so if it is a bit caught up in the whirlwind, well, that's just collateral damage that they can probably live with.

I'll remind everybody that they had ZERO problem axing 40% of Logic's userbase when they bought emagic and killed Windows support. And then again, when they killed VST support. Apple's general methodology is "our way or the highway," with the understanding that you have little choice in the matter. Steinberg has caught this disease to a certain degree, having just axed VST2.4 support, and announced that Steinberg products will be VST3 only in the not-too-distant future.
It's not hard to see the push towards a fully Apple controlled Logic ecosystem, but I'm a bit more reluctant to go with the OS X = iOS theory.
Yes, Apple will have no problems issuing these restrictions to smaller developers and the audio world in general. But this would also mean they would impose these restrictions to other DAW's (mind you, you either go iOS or you don't), which, I presume, would cause a stir but nothing to bother Apple much.
Looking at the broader picture they would also have to apply this model to the likes of Adobe, Microsoft, Autodesk etc. These companies have, for various reasons, a much bigger influence on Apple than, say, Ableton or Yamaha. The involved risk when going to a all restricted iOS model might be too big even for Apple. Because, if one abandons ship, more will surely follow, and there's little doubt that even Apple knows they exist by the grace of other developers/apps on their OS.

Of course, as a longtime Apple user, there is a bit of wishful thinking in all of the above. Time will tell.

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i don't think it's time to think of the sky falling and get all angry.. to me this is just a "raise the eyebrow.. oh shit.. that might be happening sooner than i thought" and a call to pay attention so i can be prepared to deal with whatever it is.

news like this does focus the plans a little.. or will when it comes time to have actual plans to upgrade to a new computer etc..

by then.. will logic be something i still want to use? will there be a way to run an older version of logic? will logic require mavericks? wtf will mavericks be? god i hope it doesn't look like iOS 7.. which is fine for a phone but not really for something i'll need to use as i use OSX now.. i don't want every damn thing shifting and animating all over the place.

as expressed already in this thread it seems it's could get a little whacky for a while once this boulder starts to roll down hill.

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Crandall1 wrote:Apple's general methodology is "our way or the highway," with the understanding that you have little choice in the matter. Steinberg has caught this disease to a certain degree, having just axed VST2.4 support, and announced that Steinberg products will be VST3 only in the not-too-distant future.
Steinberg website wrote: HAMBURG, Germany — September 3, 2013 — Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH today announced that they would no longer continue to develop and maintain the VST 2 software interface but focus efforts entirely on the Software Development Kit (SDK) development of VST 3. All Steinberg host applications will remain VST 2 compatible.
[...]
"Our host applications, such as Cubase, Nuendo and WaveLab, will continue to support VST 2. We are, however, planning to make the SDK for VST 2 unavailable by the end of this year"
http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/pre ... eases.html

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What is Microsofts stance on sandboxing in Windows?

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carfian wrote:What is Microsofts stance on sandboxing in Windows?
It's their Dare-To-Dream plan. Win8 and Win/RT are the little tiny baby tiles to build a walled garden around Redmond, called the windowsstore. Despite how out of touch the management of M$ is with the users of their products and despite how deep the Apple-envy runs in the profit projections, they don't have the power to force all of their, thankfully, independent desktop developers to hand over a 30% Microsoft tax. Besides, that would be double-dipping. We're only supposed to pay the Microsoft tax once.

That said, M$ has been running roughshod over their devs recently. It used to be, Developers, Developers, Developers. With lots of perks. And that is what made M$ mighty. And they used to know that. But, now in their new 'Devices & Services' race to the bottom, it's Mobile Me, Me Mobile, Nokia? :D
perception: the stuff reality is made of.

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Understood, thanks.

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If sandboxing also means that they'll check the signed binaries then I'm all for it. We had our stuff tested and it basically works - presets load and save, resources load, but preferences don't save yet (might move to presets directory then). No crashes yet.

My hope is that this is merely a pre-cursor to open the App Store for plug-ins. We might try this as an alternative model and see how it works. Apple's 30% cut will have to be met by upgrade costs, so that the stuff turns a bit into a subscription model. I guess this is where it's going with this, and with cloud based models.

I can't imagine that Apple is forcing us to go App Store because, well, too many popular people would be too pissed off to loose their tools.

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What usually happens regarding these kind of changes is that everyones whines for ages and threatens to jump camp, eventually it settles down and everyone declares it genius and asks why no other OS does it. Then it becomes a desirable marketing feature :)

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If Logic X then gets sandboxed and you can only buy plugins in the app store - thats effectively the end of its use as a 'pro' audio software app I would think?
Presets for u-he Diva -> http://swanaudio.co.uk/

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I think it's quite ironic how the same brand that once encouraged people to "think different" and made references to Orwell's vision of a totalitarian state in its ads ("1984") now wants to build a tightly controlled walled garden ecosystem. :roll:

If all else fails, we will just have to become desktop jailbreakers, I guess. :)


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analoguesamples909 wrote:If Logic X then gets sandboxed and you can only buy plugins in the app store - thats effectively the end of its use as a 'pro' audio software app I would think?
Two words:
z3ta+ and STEAM
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ah.. yeah.. very interesting.. not really.. i dont use this crappy OS as i dont use overpriced mobile phones. :phew:
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.

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Crandall1 wrote:Steinberg has caught this disease to a certain degree, having just axed VST2.4 support, and announced that Steinberg products will be VST3 only in the not-too-distant future.
Did they actually say that? That their products will actually stop loading VST 2.x plugs in the not too distant future?

I really don't recall them saying that. I do recall them saying they'll no longer support and distribute the VST 2 SDK, not that all their products will stop using VST 2.x plugs.

Can you link to that comment?
Last edited by LawrenceF on Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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If you intend to use Win8 (and up) in the near future, sh*t like that can happen as well. M$ is already forcing you to go "app store" with certain tools.


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App Store was sorta kinda a good idea but

- No upgrade pricing possible
- No re-sell
- No cross-platform license
- No control of version whatsoever (forget to backup your previous ver and you're SOL)

Though I doubt Apple will make everything dead from get go, I wonder how/if that impacts some existing copy protection schemes.

All that said, unless everything turn into $5 a pop, I'm not re-buying in any app store, be it apple or propellerhead or whoever else. Not rich enough to buy the same thing over and over.

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