Cakewalk Sonar X3

[hibidy]

Yeah, if "steam" is some new copy protection then that DOES push me even further away. (though I admit I don't really understand it yet)

ME LOONY??????????

[beltrom]

Yeah, if "steam" is some new copy protection then that DOES push me even further away. (though I admit I don't really understand it yet)

ME LOONY??????????

What little I've been exposed to steam it hasn't caused me any problems. And I've actually used some of the "features". I can understand someone seeing steam as a benefit. So for non critical stuff I wouldn't be too concerned.

I would say as steps in cp goes it's probably the smallest step the Cakers could make. It doesn't seem they've made it, so it's a hypothetical question anyway.

[chk071]

KVR - The looney asylum for copy protection hysteric patients. Seriously, i think Steam is one of the most hassle free copy protections there is. As Arossa said, most software, once activated, is also available offline, so you don't have to be online the whole time... another great thing about Steam is that you can automatically update your software. No more manually checking for updates needed. And you can access your software on different computers, it just has to be authorised for Steam usage. No more physical copies of your software needed and so on. I think Steam has many advantages, and i would like to see more audio software distributed that way.

I wrote a long essay on how it's not really imaginary problems, with examples, and how the looney would be in accepting the same thing happening to you again. But we at KVR go down this road to often as is, so I'll leave it at that.

I can accept steam for non critical stuff, it's good enough for that. I'd have to think about accepting it for something like Sonar.

Which is your good right, and which is the only right thing to do to show your discontent with companies business policies. The amount of company bashing and complaining about everything here just leaves me to the conclusion, that the opinions stated here are in no way representative, and should best be ignored by any company. Really it seems more like this is a place to vent your frustation and hatred about everything.

[Spiritos]

...Really it seems more like this is a place to vent your frustation and hatred about everything.

Well, regardless of opinion, this is a discussion forum. Both postitive and negative views are being discussed and although this may not be the primary forum for -in this example- Cakewalk, it would be a good idea to feel out people's opinions about upcoming changes or recent releases by the company's productmanagement.

[chk071]

Yeah, but it would be cool if it could be discussed rationally instead of "I have no idea what Steam is but it's bad and i don't want it", as happened above... the ironic part being that Sonar isn't even listed on Steam.

[Spiritos]

Yeah, but it would be cool if it could be discussed rationally instead of "I have no idea what Steam is but it's bad and i don't want it", as happened above... the ironic part being that Sonar isn't even listed on Steam.

To be honest I didn't read your tête-à-tête with beltrom so I don't know about the rationality or his knowledge of Steam but if the latter was the case then yeah.. Then again although Sonar is not on Steam yet some CW products are and I think it's a viable discussion to feel out how people feel about a 3rd party added to the mix in the future.

Like I wrote, personally I have had bad experiences with Steam. True, this was the case with an online game and from what I know now CW products don't require an online verification (aside from the initial installation) but if the mechanism would involve such thing I would definitely think twice using a DAW which ability to function would require uptime from 3rd party servers.

So although this is just a storm in a glass of water I will follow CW's future releases and verification proces closely as for me dongles and online verifications are a no-go.

[chk071]

To be honest I didn't read your tête-à-tête with beltrom so I don't know about the rationality or his knowledge of Steam

Not him. ^^

Like I wrote, personally I have had bad experiences with Steam. True, this was the case with atn online game and from what I know now CW products don't require an online verification (aside from the initial installation) but if the mechanism would involve such thing I would definitely think twice using a DAW which ability to function would require uptime from 3rd party servers.

FWIW, i never witnessed a single server downtime on Steam. Apart from that, you will most likely only need it to be online for the activatioon/downloading part. After that, you can access the apps offline. Oh, another thing is that some games you can use either with Steam, or another activation method, like internet activation, and then not have to rely on Steam at all. I don't know which way Cakewalk will go, but there are several. But again, imo Steam is a very nice platform for this. Especially as you can't lose your license, like with eLicenser/Dongle stuff.

[xNiMiNx]

FWIW, i never witnessed a single server downtime on Steam.

For example: I've got storms where i live. I can create music in the dark on a laptop, and have a handful of batteries on the side. Steam downtime is just adding to the problem. What about ISP issues?

If you fail to set your games (or in this case audio software) into Offline mode before the power or ISP cuts out, youre sol.

Apart from that, you will most likely only need it to be online for the activatioon/downloading part. After that, you can access the apps offline.

This is exactly what Steam says, and it just seems to not work that way. Does Offline mode still slip a few kb of data through most firewalls?

Offline mode, last i checked, was a bad joke.

You need to keep in mind that Steam is a store, they dont like offline mode, they want you to connect, so you can see the crap on sale and rent it.

[chk071]

Offline mode simply means you start Steam without internet connection activated, when it starts, it realizes it can't connect to the internet, then it starts in offline mode, and you can access most (all?) of your apps/games. There is no need to set apps/games to offline mode. They are either accessible or not in offline mode. So far, i didn't happen to buy games which are not accessible in offline mode, so i assume almost all of them are.

Edit: It could be that games which require online services like "Games for Windows - Live" actually need an internet connection to run, because they have to connect to those servers, to transmit stats and what not.

[xNiMiNx]

Offline mode simply means you start Steam without internet connection activated, when it starts, it realizes it can't connect to the internet, then it starts in offline mode, and you can access most (all?) of your apps/games.

Steam FAQ:

"Warning
Stored information that is required for offline mode to function may be lost when forcing Steam to close instead of exiting Steam correctly. Always manually close Steam before shutting your computer down or running out of battery life if you wish to use offline mode for an extended period of time.

If the required offline mode data is lost, there is no way to start Steam without an internet connection. If you consistently encounter this issue, ensure that you are not using any programs that can interfere with Steam.

Important:
The Steam client application's files must be updated to allow for the use of Offline Mode. If your game's status is "100% - Ready" but you receive the message "This game cannot be started in Offline Mode" when attempting to play offline, the Steam client application's files need to be updated."

Heres a list of all the software known to interfere with Steam:
(things with a * = recommended to uninstall if disabling doesnt fix)

Avast!
AVG Anti-virus *
BitDefender
F-Secure
Iobit Advanced System Care *
Kaspersky Anti-virus
McAfee Anti-virus
Nod32 Anti-virus *
Norton/Symantec Anti-virus
Panda Anti-virus
Threatfire
Trend Micro
VIGuard Anti-virus
Anti-Spyware Applications

Ad Aware
CA Pest Patrol
PC Tools Spyware Doctor with AntiVirus (may need to disable Full-Screen detection in the Advanced settings)
Spybot Search & Destroy
Spycatcher Express
Spyware Doctor
Spyware Terminator
Webroot Spy Sweeper *
Firewall/Security Applications

CA Internet Security Suite
Comodo (With Portal 2 running the firewall in Defense+ in training mode allows the game to run)
CYBERsitter
ESET Smart Security
Netlimiter
McAfee Personal Firewall
Nvidia Network Access Manager/Firewall *
Nvidia ForceWare Intelligent Application Manager
Outpost Firewall (Disabling System Guard under Proactive Protection allows Portal 2 to run)
Panda Internet Security
Peer Guardian
PeerBlock
Tiny Personal Firewall
Verizon Internet Security Suite
Zone Alarm
Constant Guard by Comcast
Online Armor
Other Applications

IOBit Advance System Care
Airfoil
Alcohol 120%
AMD External Event Utility
AOLacsd.exe (AOL connection driver)
ATI Hotkey Poller
ATI Tray Tools
BitTorrent/uTorrent (all clients)
Creative Software (Alchemy, MediaSource 5 on Asus G60VX models specifcally)
Catalyst AI
Daemon Tools
Download Accelerators (all clients)
EVGA Precision
Garfield Daily Desktop Comic
GhostSurf 2007
Google Toolbar, Google Updater
GSC
Hamachi
HotSpot Shield
HydraVision
iZ3D DirectX injection
K-Lite Codec Pack
LimeWire, BearShare or other Peer 2 Peer applications
LogMeIn
Microsoft Screen Magnifier in Windows 7 (magnify.exe - may cause in-game cursor issues)
MSI Afterburner
nProtect GameGuard *
PC Time Limit
Skype
Slysoft AnyDVD
StarDock KeepSafe
SteamWatch
iolo System Mechanic
TeamSpeak (can lead to mic issues)
Total Recorder
Tuneup WinStyler Theme Service
UPEK Protector Suite
Ventrilo (can lead to mic issues)
VirtuaGirl 2
Western Digital Backup Anywhere
Whitesmoke Translator (may cause the Source engine to crash)
WindowBlinds
Xfire

Please sign me up for steam, all the problems i mention, they dont seem so big, once you give me a store front, with sales.

[chk071]

Well then... exit Steam the usual way you exit a program? I have AVG,µTorrent, Xfire, Catalyst and Daemon Tools btw, and no problem at all. This seems more like a listing of programs which could maybe cause interferences in special cases. Just like the stuff on medicament packages. You also get recommended to close all applications when installing programs. Yet it doesn't cause any problems usually.

[memyselfandus]

edit

[memyselfandus]

anyone know if you have to be Online now for the Initial Instal?

[chk071]

Again, Sonar isn't on Steam. If you mean any Steam app, yes. If you have physical media (CD/DVD) the app comes on, you can install it from CD, otherwise Steam will download it from their servers. But in both cases you have to be online for registering the key.

Basically, you have to download the Steam client, which looks like this:



Then you can either buy apps/games on the shop page, or register a game via the menu above. All your apps/games then show up in the library page. You can also choose, whether they get updated automatically, you can choose where your Steam library will be on your harddisk and so on.

[xNiMiNx]

FWIW, i never witnessed a single server downtime on Steam.

Do you use offline mode? Do you use it for extended periods of time? Your comment has me believing you use it as they want you to, connecting to them everytime.

Well then... exit Steam the usual way you exit a program?

You have never had applications crash? Lucky you.

Should i call Cleo's psychic hotline so i know when something will cause steam to crash? When a storm might knock out power? When my ISP (or a hotels) might fart, so i can make sure steam is 'updated' so i can use what i paid for, or in steams case rented, in offline mode?

Once steam sees that it has an update, you cant use offline mode. This is awsome for flakey wifi /sarcasm.

Yes its just a list, but like the medical stuff you mentioned, theres a reason behind it. They arent going to just pick random software, or side effects out of thin air, that would be bad for business.

Just because a medication doesnt give you explosive diarrhea, doesnt mean you should ride a ferris wheel with someone else on that medication.