KVR Audio

uncle808us · Post by **uncle808us** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:34 am

What are the most common or not so common chord intervals for intros and outros? Song beginnings and endings.
Thanks

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:55 am

Common is the last few measures of the end of the song (before the outro), as an intro, so, whatever the song ends with, is what it begins with.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:13 am

Why don't you do your homework? Take 1% (or more) of your own song collection, listen to the intro/outro's, analyse their chord intervals, and do the tallying.

Seriously, much can be learned by analysing existing songs.

Spiritos · Post by **Spiritos** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:04 am

My answer would be 'why would you want to know that?' The only use of such info to me would be to have some statistics which could be published as some 'page filler' in a music magazine.

If you'd want to know this for writing your own material I'd say this is a no-go.
Let each song you write evolve in the way it does.

Some tunes work best by fading in an/or out, other songs have a very distinct and different intro while others use the beat or first chords of the song..

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:15 am

Intros? B doubleflat minor, every time.

Outros? More of the same. Amirite?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:48 pm

uncle808us wrote:What are the most common or not so common chord intervals for ...

gonna go with 'thirds'.

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:59 pm

I believe this question is wrong to begin with. Better tell us what exactly you wish to achieve.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:00 pm

jancivil wrote:
uncle808us wrote:What are the most common or not so common chord intervals for ...
gonna go with 'thirds'.

no ... got to be Fifths (or sevenths)

Mebbe

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:07 pm

I'm assuming 'chord' means 'at least three notes', which may be quibbled with. let's take a seventh chord: essentially three thirds, two fifths, one seventh.

I have no idea what the OP is after, though <cookie cutter approach> comes to mind.

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:10 pm

jancivil wrote:
uncle808us wrote:What are the most common or not so common chord intervals for ...
gonna go with 'thirds'.

Unless he's making trance, then it's unison ad nauseum.

tanabarbier · Post by **tanabarbier** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:20 pm

No no no no, intros use the first chord, and outros the last chord. It really is that simple.

uncle808us · Post by **uncle808us** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:25 pm

Sorry the question was not clear enough.

I was mixing up terms, I was wanting common chord progressions, not intervals.

An interval is the difference between two pitches (harmonic interval - the difference between two pitches in a chord, melodic interval - the difference between two adjacent pitches in a melody).

What I was looking for, however, is the chord progressions, which can be expressed as in 1, 2 etc, but they are better expressed using Roman Numeral Analysis as there are differences between major progressions and the 3 minor scale progressions that RNA will capture and 1, 2, 3 will not.

Most songs intro using chords from the verse, bridge, chorus etc, not using a new section. Similarly most songs outro on chorus chords, or at least many do.

So here are a few common progressions and some of the songs that use them:

I IV I V - Brown Eyed Girl
I I I ii IV V - Like A Rolling Stone
I V vi IV - With Or Without You

Or some common 12 bar major progressions would be:

I I I I IV IV I I V V I I
I IV I I IV IV I I ii V I V

Or some 12 bar minor blues progressions would be:

i i i i iv iv i i VI V I I
i i i i iv iv i i iv V i I

Other common progressions

I VI IV V I
I VI II V I
I II VI V I
I vi ii V
I V vi IV

Thanks for the serious answers.

tanabarbier · Post by **tanabarbier** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:31 pm

Well the second answer (by Bertkoor) was excelent, analyse songs, you'll have an idea. That is it. Theory is an (as in one of multiple possibles) explanation of what has been done before. Not a recipee that you use before starting. I feel that you are using it backwards.
You want ideas, you study songs that you like and see what's inside. Really there is nothing more.
You want ideas that are "most common", if your definition of "most common" is "what is the top ten of vevo", well go see the top ten, and analyse it. Really.

Have a good day!

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:52 am

Intros and outros are more diversified then those who create them. There is no univiersal open a can and it's done method. Trying to slap someone else's idea onto the beginning of your song with out rhyme or reason is abandoning all hope that you could create your own.

That being said there are various conventions you can use to develop your own ideas.

With Mowtown intros and outros were based on the chorus. The title was almost always in the chorus and if you want someone to remember the name of the song when they buy it putting the title in the most memorable part of the song fits.
Example

Along those same lines Steely Dan uses a stripped down variation of the chorus during the intro of Rikki Don't Lose That Number

Also putting a variation of the chorus in the intro with a plagal cadence so it's not exactly the same seems to work fairly well. And of course the outro is the last chance to get the title out to the audience. The intro can be an instrumental as well based on an existing progression from the rest of the song.

Many Blues songs use the turnaround of the progression as an intro. Starting on measures nine. If it started on measure eleven or twelve more often then not it would be a lead in not an intro.

Many tunes simply extend the first chord of the progression backwards to new measures (the intro) Thus creating a vamp. A vamp is where the "progression" is all but non existent instead focusing on one chord/tonality

Steely Dan (I love those guys) has a few songs where it seems like the intro isn't connected to a key rather the progression is laying down a pathway to the key. In Deacon Blues he goes through these chromatic chord walkdowns that read more and sound more intellectual then they are..

Writing something like that is a testament to envisioning music as a realm to be explored not a cage to be trapped in for fear of a wrong note.

uncle808us · Post by **uncle808us** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:17 am

Very good advice and nice examples, I'm a big Steely Dan fan as well. Thanks