The Best Drum Sample Library!

[jancivil]

I assume you don't hear a difference between guitar/bass downstrokes and upstrokes either.

I was just watching a Mike Stern video and he was showing a scale (not fast). I was struck by the [consistency of the] tone, I said to myself, 'is he using all downstrokes (a 'round' tone)? I knew only when the camera caught it, he was straight alternate picking. So, it depends. I think I'm not listening as a detective on that level. I'm convinced by the 'performance' or I'm not, and I doubt I'm ever going to say 'oh, there's not alternate picking in those samples'. Seems kind of anal to me, or I'd be so bored I think I've bolted already.

My other training was in classical guitar. if someone is really noticing index vs middle finger from you, you're not doing your job right.
I had one e. bass library which will go unnamed, and it was quite clear the person recorded had this /i vs m/ weakness. There were two types of tone, one round and one flimsy. So vis a vis round robin, the playback/the render was significantly different, this time to the next. I was forced to render it in sections, trial and error, because I had a clear idea of a round tone I required to happen in certain spots, and now it happens, now it doesn't. I ended up replacing the instrument, in fact.

This kind of thing is NOT a plus, it is a deficiency of execution. If "realism" means a poorer performance than I want, it's not useful.

[Tubeman]

I assume you don't hear a difference between guitar/bass downstrokes and upstrokes either.

I was just watching a Mike Stern video and he was showing a scale (not fast). I was struck by the [consistency of the] tone, I said to myself, 'is he using all downstrokes (a 'round' tone)? I knew only when the camera caught it, he was straight alternate picking. So, it depends. I think I'm not listening as a detective on that level. I'm convinced by the 'performance' or I'm not, and I doubt I'm ever going to say 'oh, there's not alternate picking in those samples'. Seems kind of anal to me, or I'd be so bored I think I've bolted already.

My other training was in classical guitar. if someone is really noticing index vs middle finger from you, you're not doing your job right.
I had one e. bass library which will go unnamed, and it was quite clear the person recorded had this /i vs m/ weakness. There were two types of tone, one round and one flimsy. So vis a vis round robin, the playback/the render was significantly different, this time to the next. I was forced to render it in sections, trial and error, because I had a clear idea of a round tone I required to happen in certain spots, and now it happens, now it doesn't. I ended up replacing the instrument, in fact.

This kind of thing is NOT a plus, it is a deficiency of execution. If "realism" means a poorer performance than I want, it's not useful.

I think you're going way too far from the original subject and point with all this. If you've ever played anything heavier than AC/DC with electric guitar you'll know what is meant by downstrokes. As a rhythm guitarist the faster you can downpick evenly the better. Alt picking sounds different. Somehow you jumped from this to playing classical guitar with fingers...?

I think this has gone way off-topic to be useful to anyone.

[chokehold]

Alt picking sounds different.

Only if you do it differently.

If you hit the string hard with the sharp edge of the pick on the way down and then just tickle it with the pick's long side while you're pulling the pick back up, of course it's gonna sound different.

Physics tells us that if you hit the string the exact same way with the hand going up or down, it's going to sound absolutely identical. The only thing that can change is the phase, because the string gets picked the other way = the transients and overall waveforms oscillate in the opposite direction.

[jancivil]

I assume you don't hear a difference between guitar/bass downstrokes and upstrokes either.

I was just watching a Mike Stern video and he was showing a scale (not fast). I was struck by the [consistency of the] tone, I said to myself, 'is he using all downstrokes (a 'round' tone)? I knew only when the camera caught it, he was straight alternate picking. So, it depends. I think I'm not listening as a detective on that level. I'm convinced by the 'performance' or I'm not, and I doubt I'm ever going to say 'oh, there's not alternate picking in those samples'. Seems kind of anal to me, or I'd be so bored I think I've bolted already.

My other training was in classical guitar. if someone is really noticing index vs middle finger from you, you're not doing your job right.
I had one e. bass library which will go unnamed, and it was quite clear the person recorded had this /i vs m/ weakness. There were two types of tone, one round and one flimsy. So vis a vis round robin, the playback/the render was significantly different, this time to the next. I was forced to render it in sections, trial and error, because I had a clear idea of a round tone I required to happen in certain spots, and now it happens, now it doesn't. I ended up replacing the instrument, in fact.

This kind of thing is NOT a plus, it is a deficiency of execution. If "realism" means a poorer performance than I want, it's not useful.

I think you're going way too far from the original subject and point with all this. If you've ever played anything heavier than AC/DC with electric guitar you'll know what is meant by downstrokes. As a rhythm guitarist the faster you can downpick evenly the better. Alt picking sounds different. Somehow you jumped from this to playing classical guitar with fingers...?

I think this has gone way off-topic to be useful to anyone.

I jumped? T'was you made the equivalence of alternate picking with L v. R drum strokes. I made the point that one strives for consistency. I think uselessness here is 'if you've ever played anything heavy you'll know what is meant by downstrokes'. What did I just go into? Let me explain then: i/m on a classical guitar, or on a bass guitar, is used for the very same purpose as down/up with a plectrum. Now, the angle of a pick could produce a real difference and it may tend to be true that many or most people have their own attack. But I think there is nothing about directionality itself that would produce a noticable difference. Any more than x distance to right of center vs x to the left of center on a snare drum head makes that difference in sound. Unless the drum is out of whack. I should reiterate 'one strives for consistency' in both cases. Unless there is a particular plus in having every other stroke dodgy; as per my point on round robin. For instance sometimes I deliberately deselect repetitions in VSL libraries. There is a certain amount of error qua error = realism that I think is bullshit. I no more want to determine - or ever notice - down v. up than I want to do L v. R in the key editor. I think that's just anality. YMMV. Oh, btw, is this L/R difference in that drums library maintained faithfully in the round robin?

The goal of alt-picking or L/R is not to get an alternating accent, it's to be able to go faster, generally. I think no one is listening to music for 'ah ha, that bit starts on an upstroke/Left Hand'.

But thanks for refereeing the "usefulness" of a thread, original subject = <The Best Drum Sample Library is this one>, one that little can be determined about, where the original poster has vacated.
I think your whole trip in this has largely been an exercise of 'I hear better than you lot' anyway.

[Tubeman]

Yes I think you jumped leaps away with talking about classical guitars and finger picking which is a totally different playing style than electric guitar with plectrum. The down/upstroke really only matter with distorted mutes so nothing to do with classical guitar. Listen to 'Master of Puppets' by Metallica to get the idea. I think it would be better if you go to Ultimate Metal forum and ask these things there if you want to learn about different playing styles. I can't really be bothered with this. Don't be angry.

[pljones]

Tubeman, your point was that there is a physical law that says "left hand" sounds different from "right hand" or "up stroke" sounds different from "down stroke".

What you have now down is say: "I look foolish for saying this, so I'm off".

[Tubeman]

Tubeman, your point was that there is a physical law that says "left hand" sounds different from "right hand" or "up stroke" sounds different from "down stroke".

What you have now down is say: "I look foolish for saying this, so I'm off".

Yes, there is a physical law and it does sound different. I don't know where you got your assumption but I still stand by my statements. I just don't see the point arguing about it endlessly because obviously this isn't going anywhere and in addition, derailing this thread even more into off-topic by talking about fingered bass guitars and what not. I should have known not to start talking about anything technical on KVR as this place is better suited discussing about the newest IKM products and how does this and that plugin skin look or what's the best compressor.

[pljones]

My "assumption" as you call it is that in the world of physics, hitting a circular surface a specific distance along a radial line will cause the same response, regardless of the direction of the radial line. Your argument does not address this point at all and is, hence, talking mumbo-jumbo and magic. If you want to talk "technical", try being up to the job first - that includes being prepared to listen and learn.

[Tubeman]

My "assumption" as you call it is that in the world of physics, hitting a circular surface a specific distance along a radial line will cause the same response, regardless of the direction of the radial line. Your argument does not address this point at all and is, hence, talking mumbo-jumbo and magic. If you want to talk "technical", try being up to the job first - that includes being prepared to listen and learn.

Well, it's not my problem if you didn't use ear plugs and can't hear properly anymore. There is no magic nor there is an argument. With trained ears and good hearing you'd hear it too. Or, if your ears are not totally shot you can learn to listen these things. Maybe visit an ear doctor for a check and start from there.

Can you spot 16 bit samples in a mix versus 24 bit samples?

[Burillo]

Can you spot 16 bit samples in a mix versus 24 bit samples?

nope. and you can't either unless there's some extreme processing that brings up the noise floor. but that's not a fair comparison.

[pljones]

My "assumption" as you call it is that in the world of physics, hitting a circular surface a specific distance along a radial line will cause the same response, regardless of the direction of the radial line. Your argument does not address this point at all and is, hence, talking mumbo-jumbo and magic. If you want to talk "technical", try being up to the job first - that includes being prepared to listen and learn.

Well, it's not my problem if you didn't use ear plugs and can't hear properly anymore. There is no magic nor there is an argument. With trained ears and good hearing you'd hear it too. Or, if your ears are not totally shot you can learn to listen these things. Maybe visit an ear doctor for a check and start from there.

Can you spot 16 bit samples in a mix versus 24 bit samples?

Once more you (a) fail to reply to the point and (b) try smoke and mirrors to change the subject.

[Tubeman]

Can you spot 16 bit samples in a mix versus 24 bit samples?

Once more you (a) fail to reply to the point and (b) try smoke and mirrors to change the subject.

That is just your opinion. My responses have been sufficient enough several pages ago and I don't want to repeat the same things over and over. I take your answer as you can't hear the difference. Why use 24 bit samples at all? This is important comparison for putting things in context.

[Burillo]

Why use 24 bit samples at all?

there isn't any difference between 24-bit and 16-bit samples (other than the noise floor), so unless you're doing severe processing and need additional headroom, there is no point to even use 24-bit samples at all. simple physics (or, rather, digital audio) increasing bit depth only lowers the noise floor (e.g. expands dynamic range downwards and further into inaudibility), it doesn't introduce anything else. there isn't any additional "magic" in 24-bit samples. they're exactly the same.

[pljones]

My responses have been sufficient enough several pages ago

No, they were not. You stated some highly dubious ideas that were then refuted by several people. I have since asked you a question that simplified your idea down to see whether you could understand why the points others had raised had been made. Since then, you have been avoiding the subject.

[Tubeman]

My responses have been sufficient enough several pages ago

No, they were not. You stated some highly dubious ideas that were then refuted by several people. I have since asked you a question that simplified your idea down to see whether you could understand why the points others had raised had been made. Since then, you have been avoiding the subject.

I have nothing to avoid. There is nothing new for me in your posts to understand. I still hear a difference, if you can't hear I can't help you. What do you want me to say? Not everyone has equal hearing. Many people can't hear anything over 10k. Maybe you just have to accept that and not blame everything on magic or start picking on others because they have better hearing...