KVR Audio

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:41 pm

I think you're all missing the point. The iPad didn't die a horrible death... my guess is the Surface didn't even make a dent in their sales. First of all... different applications. My wife has a desktop and a laptop but bought an iPad because she often just wants to poke around Facebook and Pinterest and Facetime with our parents (we've got a new baby so there's a lot of call for that) My dad bought some tablet and he couldn't get it working right. He's a bright guy but not much patience for a lot of arcane fiddling. Bought him an iPad 2 and he was up and running in minutes. Again, he's got a desktop for other things.

As for the Surface... and most other tablets... I don't see them. Every single tablet based Point of Sale system I've seen in the last few years is an iPad. Every café I've been to seems to be filled with them. Of course in the cafés nobody's doing music performances on them, but I imagine it's possible. I don't think I'd do it, but I imagine that running a nice MacBook Pro with an iPad as a control surface would be awesome.

The iPad is successful because it's not a laptop and doesn't pretend to be one in any way. Why is that so hard to see? I say all this as someone who's running a Windows 8 desktop with a large touch screen monitor. It's excellent, but Windows 8 isn't fully cooked in terms of a touch screen UI IMO. I also recently almost ditched the iPhone for a Nokia Lumia 1020, but when the dust settled I realized that phone is just a decent camera with an OK phone tacked on. Also, I do game development and iOS is still king for mobile games and I imagine with the 5s it's only better. I'm not saying the 1020 is bad, our daycare provider woman loves hers, but basically she wants a good camera she can make calls on.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:46 pm

Image-Line wrote:
IncarnateX wrote:
Image-Line wrote:BTW why is this thread obsessed with the Surface? There are now lots of i5 & i7 tablets on the market from other manufacturers

Given the title of the thread that isn't particulary strange: "Surface pro 2013: Goodbye iPad"
Yes, because the Surface Pro is likely to be one of the smaller sellers in this category, which is expanding rapidly. HP, Dell, Asus, Sony, Lenovo, Samsung, Acer, Toshiba etc have been pouring models into this category for the last 12 months.

For the record IMO touch really works well when you also have some serious screen real estate:

When we presented at Messe this year we were using HP 22" capacitive touch monitors and it was a revelation.

Regards Scott

Wow, this is really what would drive me. How much would the i7 model cost?

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:53 pm

zerocrossing wrote: My wife has a desktop and a laptop but bought an iPad because she often just wants to poke around Facebook and Pinterest and Facetime with our parents (we've got a new baby so there's a lot of call for that) My dad bought some tablet and he couldn't get it working right. He's a bright guy but not much patience for a lot of arcane fiddling. Bought him an iPad 2 and he was up and running in minutes. Again, he's got a desktop for other things.

Very much what I've been saying...

zerocrossing wrote: Every single tablet based Point of Sale system I've seen in the last few years is an iPad. Every café I've been to seems to be filled with them. Of course in the cafés nobody's doing music performances on them, but I imagine it's possible. I don't think I'd do it, but I imagine that running a nice MacBook Pro with an iPad as a control surface would be awesome.

Again, you touched the center of the question. The iPad may be good as a controller to other device, or to be used in a café in activities usually carried on on such environments. Regarding the creation and production of music, pro manufacturers have been promoting it basically as a controller to other devices. But to be used exclusively as a controller, I have other, better and less expensive options too.

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:55 pm

T-CM11 wrote:
BMoore wrote: Yes. But you wrote "on my high ppi screen".
A larger screen, with ever higher ppi, could even make sytrus bigger.
I mentioned laptop screen. There are no laptops with a (high ppi) screen that is bigger than the average standalone screen.

T-CM11 wrote: The Image Line generators too? (Like Sytrus, which is too small on my high ppi laptop screen)

Wait a minute... (I must've been sleeping)
It doesn't matter how big a screen is, Sytrus will always have the same size given a certain ppi value.
My laptop is 141 ppi I think; so on a 141 ppi screen as big as a house, any bitmap object will have the same physical size as on my laptop.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:04 pm

BMoore wrote: Others are able.

Of course BMoore, of course. Apart from the fact that with regard to the apps

BMoore wrote: most of them are not very touch friendly.

right?

BMoore · Post by **BMoore** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:09 pm

IncarnateX wrote:
BMoore wrote: Others are able.
Of course BMoore, of course. Apart from the fact that with regard to the apps
BMoore wrote: most of them are not very touch friendly.
right?

And yet they are still able.
Intriguing.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:20 pm

BMoore wrote:
And yet they are still able.
Intriguing.

Yes, with mouse and keyboard, just like you said

And they are also...also...AVAILABLE!

Intriguing indeed.

I am SO happy we finally have reached an agreement.

Your friend

Biscotto · Post by **Biscotto** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:48 pm

Being a musician that has no use of screen controllers, the iPad is totally useless in my music world.

Lovely gadget no question!

When we love something, primarily in the Apple world, we go through a fair amount of compromises in order to keep that Loved tool with us AND find a way to use it squeezing the life out of it

I work on PC, I was an Apple user at one time, and the Surface, or a similar device as Scott point it out, is a better choice for me and other musicians wanting to keep their professional setup with them anywhere we choose to be and be able to do the complete work with little or no compromise.

The iPad is no just far from it, it is not designed for such a power. Yes, the iPad has, for now, more Apps that are designed with absolute comfort for a touch experience.
Windows will follow in the near future, I'm sure we all know is coming, and Apple will have to upgrade their IPad concept to a Surface Model ( iPad-pro if you will).

To have a Surface with a folding keyboard and a mini mouse to keep composing anywhere, with my DAW and VST of choice, is indeed a luxury and an immense pleasure and a terrific feeling of freedom.
I'm planning to get one soon.

And yes, I love my iPad but I love my music way more

BMoore · Post by **BMoore** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:00 pm

IncarnateX wrote:
BMoore wrote:
And yet they are still able.
Intriguing.
Yes, with mouse and keyboard, just like you said And they are also...also...AVAILABLE!

Intriguing indeed.

I am SO happy we finally have reached an agreement.

Your friend

Even without a mouse and a keyboard! IMAGINE THAT! Oh, no. You couldn't.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:02 pm

BMoore wrote:
Even without a mouse and a keyboard! IMAGINE THAT! Oh, no. You couldn't.

WOW! any Youtubes vids to show me?

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:04 pm

Biscotto wrote: Windows will follow in the near future, I'm sure we all know is coming, and Apple will have to upgrade their IPad concept to a Surface Model ( iPad-pro if you will).

They might add an "iPad Pro", but I don't see why they should upgrade (aka 'replace') the current one.
Let's say you're running Logic while tweaking Animoog... on the same screen! So you'll see one or the other, never both. I have a laptop & an iPad - I can do both. Same thing applies to the Surface Pro of course.
A touchscreen interface doesn't replace mouse&keyb, and vice versa. And having both types of input on only one screen is not exactly ideal.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:05 pm

ericj23 wrote:So to be clear what I would like is for you to stop posting in this thread

.....or else?

Biscotto · Post by **Biscotto** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:42 pm

T-CM11 wrote:
Biscotto wrote: Windows will follow in the near future, I'm sure we all know is coming, and Apple will have to upgrade their IPad concept to a Surface Model ( iPad-pro if you will).
They might add an "iPad Pro", but I don't see why they should upgrade (aka 'replace') the current one.
Let's say you're running Logic while tweaking Animoog... on the same screen! So you'll see one or the other, never both. I have a laptop & an iPad - I can do both. Same thing applies to the Surface Pro of course.
A touchscreen interface doesn't replace mouse&keyb, and vice versa. And having both types of input on only one screen is not exactly ideal.

Sorry I can't relate to that, but I think understand your point and need.

The difference though is that in the W8 tablet you are not confined to one app per screen as in most cases with the iPad.

I could run my DAW and have my synth as well in the same screen simultaneously rather then using two input devices.

Hopefully I'm grasping what are you are saying unless you just find it more appropriate for your workflow to use a laptop an the iPad.

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:08 pm

Ok, but we're talking about a tablet size screen. The whole screen is needed for 1 synth. Make it smaller to make room for the daw & things get fiddly...

Biscotto · Post by **Biscotto** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:31 pm

T-CM11 wrote:Ok, but we're talking about a tablet size screen. The whole screen is needed for 1 synth. Make it smaller to make room for the daw & things get fiddly...

It could be but a Surface has the same resolution of a laptop I think. In that case it should be fine just everything smaller!

I know what you mean.

Surface 2013: good bye iPad?