Satin OMG

[xh3rv]

There was kinda little change.

It's worth playing with the compander knob a bit here, too - Sascha's preset is not super-aggressive, I'm not sure whether that's explicitly historical or just in keeping with a disciplined tendency towards subtlety in the plug-in's design ... I kind of like it cranked a bit further than that.

A lot of Satin is about subtle things that don't always translate well into plug-in nomenclature. For example, one might tame peaks or add a touch of saturation but this happens a bit indirectly. Some of the spectrum-related stuff is less subtle, e.g. pre-emphasis can get fairly strong, but it's worth noting it's also indirect with all the other kinds of effects going on.

With a lot of subtle properties or effects, I think where Satin starts getting 'OMG' is more emergent behaviors resulting from interactions more on the scale of a whole signal chain or mix. So far I think it's generally going to work better further towards the end of a signal chain, and it can be a lot like making the compressor gentler, making the reverb breathier, the kick smoother (a punchier smooth, even - not contradictory things in Satin!).

I have no idea if what I'm getting from Satin is what people fetishize about tape. It takes time to develop a completely informed opinion about any plug and it's feeling very novel at the moment ... so far I'm throwing it at everything and it's staying on.

[Kindred]

finally got around to trying this on the master bus - ran this track through it. Interestingly, I got the opposite effect to Slate VTM. With the Slate, it gives the bottom end a push and I usually have to compensate by pulling some of the bottom end out. With Satin, my final mixdown is tighter, with less sub-bass in the kick than my premaster - still not sure whether I like it more or less - I get the feeling my pre-master sounds better in headphones and the master run through Satin will sound better on a big system.

Note this has also gone through a Thermionic Phoenix so this has also coloured it a little.

https://soundcloud.com/kriece/catatonia-krieces-lucid

[sascha]

With Satin, my final mixdown is tighter, with less sub-bass in the kick than my premaster - still not sure whether I like it more or less - I get the feeling my pre-master sounds better in headphones and the master run through Satin will sound better on a big system.

The bass response on Satin is highly customizable.

First, it depends on the tape type, where 'vintage' is a bit more on the 'round' side.

Second, the pre-eq plays a big role. The 'fattest' bass response is probably with the NAB setting, as NAB adds a low-shelf boost upon record which gets subtracted back upon repro, but as a result the bass gets distorted ealier than with the IEC or flat setting, thus sounding a bit thicker (unless you drive the input too hard).

Third, there's the head-bump control in the service panel which - when turned fully down - compensates for the resonance build-up in the bass region, stimulated by the increased induction (due to the pole pieces picking as well, not only the head gap). In the central position, there's already a bit of head-bump (location & amplitude depending on the gap width), and turning it further up creates some massive low-end thump because the resonance is sort of unleashed (also known as 'contour effect').

Fourth, the general studio-recorder rule applies here, too: 15 ips is usually the better choice for rock & pop (or anything related that needs good low-end response). 30 ips - apart from preserving treble much better - tends to produce a lighter bass response, but this is natural and also occurs on real machines. [People unfamiliar with real tape might turn the speed to fully high intuitively but then might wonder why things starts sounding thin.]

If interested, check out these plots:
http://www.endino.com/graphs/

[TreyM]

Slapping Satin across a finished mix isn't exactly the ideal way to test the plugin. You should mix through it from the beginning as they did in the old days on real tape. Not that you're doing this, but too many people are trying to make something sound like heavily driven tape, when the whole idea behind the hi-end tape machines of the past, was to remain transparent as they could make them. It's about subtlety, people. There are exceptions of course.

[Igro]

Now, please explain, what is this plugin for, how to use it and what i need to achieve with it? Thanks a lot!

Well it has many uses. Can be used to decode old cassette recordedings that used Dolby A or B for one thing. It can be used to enhance the audio subtley, add a smoothness to the top end and warmth to the bottom, or the complete reverse.
It's a delay plugin
It's a chorus and a flanger too.
It can be used to colour the sound more obviously, break it up, dirty it, add harmonic distortion or soften transients. Don't expect some full on distortion plugin though, this isn't it, but the amount that it can affect the signal is very pleasing and organic.

Here's an obvious creative example of Satin. First half is without Satin, 2nd half with Satin plugins added.

http://www.arksun-sound.com/music/blacksatin.mp3

Nice sample. But it's achievable with just ordinary delay plugin.
Also, if I push input knob harder I get the effect similar to saturation. So, I guess, all this stuff possible with a saturation plugin too. Just in case if you think that I just trying to deny everything that has been said here, it's not so. Just really want to know how effectively this plugin can be be used in production.

[hibidy]

Slapping Satin across a finished mix isn't exactly the ideal way to test the plugin. You should mix through it from the beginning as they did in the old days on real tape. Not that you're doing this, but too many people are trying to make something sound like heavily driven tape, when the whole idea behind the hi-end tape machines of the past, was to remain transparent as they could make them. It's about subtlety, people. There are exceptions of course.

This is hard to do with the demo, no it's IMPOSSIBLE to do with the demo

[electro]

Slapping Satin across a finished mix isn't exactly the ideal way to test the plugin. You should mix through it from the beginning as they did in the old days on real tape. Not that you're doing this, but too many people are trying to make something sound like heavily driven tape, when the whole idea behind the hi-end tape machines of the past, was to remain transparent as they could make them. It's about subtlety, people. There are exceptions of course.

This is hard to do with the demo, no it's IMPOSSIBLE to do with the demo

Its only $89.00, no harassing C/R or dongles and even if you're not completely satisfied with the tape compression, it also does delay, flanging. Its one of those no brainer plugs you just get without a ton of deliberation.

[Kindred]

With Satin, my final mixdown is tighter, with less sub-bass in the kick than my premaster - still not sure whether I like it more or less - I get the feeling my pre-master sounds better in headphones and the master run through Satin will sound better on a big system.

The bass response on Satin is highly customizable.

First, it depends on the tape type, where 'vintage' is a bit more on the 'round' side.

Second, the pre-eq plays a big role. The 'fattest' bass response is probably with the NAB setting, as NAB adds a low-shelf boost upon record which gets subtracted back upon repro, but as a result the bass gets distorted ealier than with the IEC or flat setting, thus sounding a bit thicker (unless you drive the input too hard).

Third, there's the head-bump control in the service panel which - when turned fully down - compensates for the resonance build-up in the bass region, stimulated by the increased induction (due to the pole pieces picking as well, not only the head gap). In the central position, there's already a bit of head-bump (location & amplitude depending on the gap width), and turning it further up creates some massive low-end thump because the resonance is sort of unleashed (also known as 'contour effect').

Fourth, the general studio-recorder rule applies here, too: 15 ips is usually the better choice for rock & pop (or anything related that needs good low-end response). 30 ips - apart from preserving treble much better - tends to produce a lighter bass response, but this is natural and also occurs on real machines. [People unfamiliar with real tape might turn the speed to fully high intuitively but then might wonder why things starts sounding thin.]

If interested, check out these plots:
http://www.endino.com/graphs/

cheers for that - I will keep experimenting - this is a fun plug to experiment with - this track was basically done when I got the plug so next one I will try integrating Satin from the start on certain sounds - it's mainly highs & percussion where I like the softening effect of tape and saturation emus...

[hibidy]

I think what he's saying to do is reasonable in theory, but it can't be demoed that way. Yeah, I'll probably buy it. I guess I have till the 6th to get it at this price?

[Kindred]

With Satin, my final mixdown is tighter, with less sub-bass in the kick than my premaster - still not sure whether I like it more or less - I get the feeling my pre-master sounds better in headphones and the master run through Satin will sound better on a big system.

The bass response on Satin is highly customizable.

First, it depends on the tape type, where 'vintage' is a bit more on the 'round' side.

Second, the pre-eq plays a big role. The 'fattest' bass response is probably with the NAB setting, as NAB adds a low-shelf boost upon record which gets subtracted back upon repro, but as a result the bass gets distorted ealier than with the IEC or flat setting, thus sounding a bit thicker (unless you drive the input too hard).

Third, there's the head-bump control in the service panel which - when turned fully down - compensates for the resonance build-up in the bass region, stimulated by the increased induction (due to the pole pieces picking as well, not only the head gap). In the central position, there's already a bit of head-bump (location & amplitude depending on the gap width), and turning it further up creates some massive low-end thump because the resonance is sort of unleashed (also known as 'contour effect').

Fourth, the general studio-recorder rule applies here, too: 15 ips is usually the better choice for rock & pop (or anything related that needs good low-end response). 30 ips - apart from preserving treble much better - tends to produce a lighter bass response, but this is natural and also occurs on real machines. [People unfamiliar with real tape might turn the speed to fully high intuitively but then might wonder why things starts sounding thin.]

If interested, check out these plots:
http://www.endino.com/graphs/

cheers for that - I will keep experimenting - this is a fun plug to experiment with - this track was basically done when I got the plug so next one I will try integrating Satin from the start on certain sounds - it's mainly highs & percussion where I like the softening effect of tape and saturation emus...

[TreyM]

I think what he's saying to do is reasonable in theory, but it can't be demoed that way. Yeah, I'll probably buy it. I guess I have till the 6th to get it at this price?

How exactly is mixing through it (demo version) any more "impossible" than slapping it across a finished mix? The demo crackles still happen, regardless.

[hibidy]

I think what he's saying to do is reasonable in theory, but it can't be demoed that way. Yeah, I'll probably buy it. I guess I have till the 6th to get it at this price?

How exactly is mixing through it (demo version) any more "impossible" than slapping it across a finished mix? The demo crackles still happen, regardless.

They all crackle randomly. One stops the other starts, it's one big crackle.

Anyways, like I said, more than one instance is impossible to demo.

[Frantz]

They all crackle randomly. One stops the other starts, it's one big crackle.

Anyways, like I said, more than one instance is impossible to demo.

With a plug-in like this which is very subtle, I need time to evaluate it and decide if I like it. Unfortunately, the crackles irritated me too much and I stopped demoing it.

I think u-he is losing sales because of this annoying demo. At least, they lost my sale on this plug-in.

[Arksun]

Nice sample. But it's achievable with just ordinary delay plugin.
Also, if I push input knob harder I get the effect similar to saturation. So, I guess, all this stuff possible with a saturation plugin too. Just in case if you think that I just trying to deny everything that has been said here, it's not so. Just really want to know how effectively this plugin can be be used in production.

Sure you were listening to the same clip?, the dry sound itself was pretty mangled and chorused by Satin (deliberately overdone in fact, I wouldn't actually mangle the sound THAT much if using it for a proper full piece) and a standard delay wouldn't sound like that delay part. You probably didn't notice the pad sounded slightly different either right?

A standard saturation plug won't do what asperity does, nor will it warp the frequency and phase response as much as Satin does. Most of the controls affect the freq and phase in fact. It's hard to know what else to suggest for you to 'get' this plug if you can't hear the changes so, it might not be for you and just use whatever delay and saturation you already use

[hibidy]

Have they done any updating since the initial release? I didn't know if I needed to update.