Lyrics

[ariston]

There are many ways to write lyrics, and there's probably plenty of good advice out there. My little piece of advice is: stop trying to say something special, or to imbue your song with a (gasp) message, and try to simply describe things that you encounter. Sit back and reflect on the past couple of days... was there anything that piqued your interest? That made you feel something? That reminded you of something? Describe what happened (and don't worry about rhythm and scanning just yet). Use simple words when you can (unless you want to be Sting, in which case, quote an author, mention the author's name, and use words like lugubrious and infinitesimal). You can also experiment with different perspectives... try writing a lyric from the perspective of a ninety-year old Bulgarian nun with a bad cigarette habit and see how far you can take it.

Examples:

"in the middle of his life
he left his wife
and ran off to be bad
boy it was sad"

This is Tom Petty, who delivers these simple lines in his best deadpan voice. Great lyric, because there's a whole story behind it, laced with wry humour and humanistic commentary.

"I found my thrill
On Blueberry Hill
On Blueberry Hill
When I found you

The moon stood still
On Blueberry Hill
And lingered until
My dream came true"

Fats Domino. Simple and beautiful.

Or this:
"I was hanging from a tree
Unaccustomed to such violence
Jesus looking down on me
I'm prepared for one big silence

How'd I ever end up here
Must be through some lack of kindness
And it seemed to dawn on me
Haemoglobin is the key

Haemoglobin is the key
To a healthy heart beat
Haemoglobin is the key
To a healthy heart beat"

This is Placebo doing Abel Meeropol's "Strange Fruit", but switching the perspective to get you into the victim's head. This is one of my all-time favourite lyrics.

[Tricky-Loops]

Writing is something that really can't be book learned, it really has to be learned from experience.

Both. As a (German) freelance journalist I've actually written articles for newspapers/magazines and I have read books about writing & journalism.

If you want to be a professional carpenter, you either wouldn't say: "Just go into the wood, grab your saw, get some pieces and nails and a hammer and make your wardrobe."

You need to learn it with tutorials & books and with learning by doing from other people how to make your own wardrobe and which wood sort & nails are the most suitable.

[debra1rlo]

Being a carpenter and making something out of other materials is not the same as using your imagination. And newswriting, nope, not the same either.

Early poets didn't have these books to learn from, they learned from others works and trying to find their voice, which is what I suggested. And I'd much rather read their words, even more than some of the best of today's lyricists.
Just sayin'

[debra1rlo]

Sorry to keep harping on this topic, but I think there's a "danger" for the uninitiated to feel a book will give them all they need to be a pro writer. I didn't see anyone in this thread who suggested a book also tell the OP to "practice writing." So naturally, one make make the inference a book education is all one needs and that is what I am reacting to here. Maybe all of you meant to say that as well, but you can't assume the OP knows this. THERE IS NO SHORTCUT TO BEING A WRITER, you learn and craft your style/voice by WRITING.

And I gotta be honest, if you are not already COMPELLED to write FIRST, without anyone pointing you to a book or class, then maybe it's not for you. No book or class, NOTHING is going to ignite that spark in you if it isn't ALREADY THERE. In my not-so-humble-opinion.

[debra1rlo]

There are many ways to write lyrics, and there's probably plenty of good advice out there. My little piece of advice is: stop trying to say something special, or to imbue your song with a (gasp) message, and try to simply describe things that you encounter. Sit back and reflect on the past couple of days... was there anything that piqued your interest? That made you feel something? That reminded you of something? Describe what happened (and don't worry about rhythm and scanning just yet). Use simple words when you can (unless you want to be Sting, in which case, quote an author, mention the author's name, and use words like lugubrious and infinitesimal). You can also experiment with different perspectives... try writing a lyric from the perspective of a ninety-year old Bulgarian nun with a bad cigarette habit and see how far you can take it... [edit for brevity]

^^^ good stuff here

[Tricky-Loops]

I didn't see anyone in this thread who suggested a book also tell the OP to "practice writing." So naturally, one make make the inference a book education is all one needs and that is what I am reacting to here. Maybe all of you meant to say that as well, but you can't assume the OP knows this. THERE IS NO SHORTCUT TO BEING A WRITER, you learn and craft your style/voice by WRITING.

Isn't this self-evident?

A book is there to give some tips & guide lines for lyric writing. In "Shortcut for Hit Songwriting" there even are many exercises where aspiring songwriters are encouraged to -- write lyrics! The title of the book is a bit misleading and implies you could make hit songwriting after reading the book. But isn't this typical US culture? Most US books that I own have those gonzo titles...that doesn't mean that there aren't useful tipps...

Compare it with learning to drive. You won't learn it by reading books about driving. But you HAVE TO know some traffic signs & rules and how a car works. And then you have to drive, drive and drive to learn it...

[Tricky-Loops]

One tip from a listener's perspective: Don't try to be uber-creative and over-complicated. You don't have to tell 10 stories in one song. You can make 10 songs out of it.

Less words work better than too many. Easy understandable words who most people can relate to. Except if you make poetical musicals... And don't be afraid of repetitions. Think of Depeche Mode. They have some hooks which are repeated more than 5 times, for example "Never again is what you swore the time before".

Repetition is a great rhetorical device. I may not remember the verses any more but this "Never again is what you swore..." is like branded in my brain.

(If you listen to advertisements, the important brand names are repeated more than 3 times because only then people can remember them!)

[debra1rlo]

I didn't see anyone in this thread who suggested a book also tell the OP to "practice writing." So naturally, one make make the inference a book education is all one needs and that is what I am reacting to here. Maybe all of you meant to say that as well, but you can't assume the OP knows this. THERE IS NO SHORTCUT TO BEING A WRITER, you learn and craft your style/voice by WRITING.

Isn't this self-evident?

It was to me, but then I;'m not the one asking for some help to inspire me to write. I just did. As did many writers before me.

A book is there to give some tips & guide lines for lyric writing. In "Shortcut for Hit Songwriting" there even are many exercises where aspiring songwriters are encouraged to -- write lyrics! The title of the book is a bit misleading and implies you could make hit songwriting after reading the book. But isn't this typical US culture? Most US books that I own have those gonzo titles...that doesn't mean that there aren't useful tipps...

If you don't have the burning desire to write already, this book (or any other) will not give it to you. If one really can't encourage oneself, you think a book is going to provide the desire?

Compare it with learning to drive. You won't learn it by reading books about driving. But you HAVE TO know some traffic signs & rules and how a car works. And then you have to drive, drive and drive to learn it...

School is for learning the basics and provided me enough guidelines once I was COMPELLED to start creative writing on my own. THAT is what is (or should have been) SELF-EVIDENT. I dont see where you told someone to try creative writing on their own, only that you suggested a book that had some exercises.

[robogone]

Early poets didn't have these books to learn from

Pfft! Shakespeare would never have amounted to anything if he didn't have access to a copy of Poetica Scriptum Per Fatuis.

It was a must buy - once he saw the infoscroll with the tag line "Write poetry just as good as Christopher Marlowe in 3 easy lessons" he just couldn't resist, and the rest, as they say, is history...

[Quietinthedark]

Here are my two cents. I don't think of myself as a great lyricist because every year I feel like I learn a lot.

But, I get compliments from other songwriters, regular music lovers, etc. a lot. So I must not be awful.

I've tried to read numerous books on the subject and I've never finished one. For some perspective, I read around 500 pages a week fiction or non-fiction.

But I can't get through these books because they are all draw inspiration from

shit I HATE ---- pop and folk dribble

But they do often have good points and I've skimmed the first paragraphs of many chapters.

Some of the good things they've taught me:

1. there is no good writing. Only good rewriting.

2. Get a thesaurus and a rhyming dictionary, but use them cautiously.

3. Most people respond better to descriptions of sensory experiences (sight, sound, taste, etc.) rather than cerebral concepts.

4. Don't feel like the story is too small.

5. Most non-vulcans like feelings.

[Tricky-Loops]

A book is there to give some tips & guide lines for lyric writing. In "Shortcut for Hit Songwriting" there even are many exercises where aspiring songwriters are encouraged to -- write lyrics! The title of the book is a bit misleading and implies you could make hit songwriting after reading the book. But isn't this typical US culture? Most US books that I own have those gonzo titles...that doesn't mean that there aren't useful tipps...

If you don't have the burning desire to write already, this book (or any other) will not give it to you. If one really can't encourage oneself, you think a book is going to provide the desire?

I've been writing lot of lyrics for my own songs, and they are usually ok'ish, but I still would like to know if you have some good advice about writing lyrics.

So I have to assume that deep'n'dark has actually done A LOT OF lyrics writing but he is looking for some tips - which are in the book that I've recommended and in the other post I made...

[debra1rlo]

Here are my two cents. I don't think of myself as a great lyricist because every year I feel like I learn a lot.

But, I get compliments from other songwriters, regular music lovers, etc. a lot. So I must not be awful.

I've tried to read numerous books on the subject and I've never finished one. For some perspective, I read around 500 pages a week fiction or non-fiction.

But I can't get through these books because they are all draw inspiration from

shit I HATE ---- pop and folk dribble

But they do often have good points and I've skimmed the first paragraphs of many chapters.

Some of the good things they've taught me:

1. there is no good writing. Only good rewriting.

2. Get a thesaurus and a rhyming dictionary, but use them cautiously.

3. Most people respond better to descriptions of sensory experiences (sight, sound, taste, etc.) rather than cerebral concepts.

4. Don't feel like the story is too small.

5. Most non-vulcans like feelings.

this is a great post, and unlike some posters, you summarized the strengths and weaknesses of these books without the OP having to part with their money.

[debra1rlo]

A book is there to give some tips & guide lines for lyric writing. In "Shortcut for Hit Songwriting" there even are many exercises where aspiring songwriters are encouraged to -- write lyrics! The title of the book is a bit misleading and implies you could make hit songwriting after reading the book. But isn't this typical US culture? Most US books that I own have those gonzo titles...that doesn't mean that there aren't useful tipps...

If you don't have the burning desire to write already, this book (or any other) will not give it to you. If one really can't encourage oneself, you think a book is going to provide the desire?

I've been writing lot of lyrics for my own songs, and they are usually ok'ish, but I still would like to know if you have some good advice about writing lyrics.

So I have to assume that deep'n'dark has actually done A LOT OF lyrics writing but he is looking for some tips - which are in the book that I've recommended and in the other post I made...

yes, you have gone on and on about this book. but i could have got on Amazon and found this book without your help. So your post(s) really weren't all that helpful now, were they?

[debra1rlo]

1. there is no good writing. Only good rewriting.

Everything you wrote was helpful and substantive, but THIS is probably the best lesson any up and coming writer could learn. It's really rare for someone to NAIL it in the first draft.

Don't ever be afraid to rework something... BUT, never throw anything away either. Why? You never know when you may have created one great turn of a phrase in an otherwise un-noteworthy piece and can reuse/recycle it for something else later on.

[Tricky-Loops]

yes, you have gone on and on about this book. but i could have got on Amazon and found this book without your help. So your post(s) really weren't all that helpful now, were they?

Really, I'm getting angry...

If you don't like me, don't reply to me. But this playing-off-against-each-other-game I cannot stand.

I can recommend every book that I like and can make every tips for lyrics that I have. That's actively helping other people. I don't get anything from these books, neither do I sell them... If you don't like books, don't read them.

But this isn't your thread. Everyone is invited to give tips, recommendations and other stuff...