KVR Audio

chokehold · Post by **chokehold** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:49 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:
chokehold wrote:isn't worth a snit if it's not round robin
BS, some of the best metal double kick work I've ever heard was done with the original DKFH and they not only didn't have round robin, they didn't have an easy way to vary to velocity.

You have your opinion, I have mine.
This is all a matter of taste, preference and expectation, all of which are subjective and nothing to argue about.

Quietinthedark · Post by **Quietinthedark** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:51 pm

chokehold wrote:The newsletter and website state:
Includes rock, metal, jazz and brush kits
Yet not a single metal demo to be found. Anyone can spot a 2-bar (or longer) drum roll or a fast double-bass part somewhere?

"up to 80 velocity layers" isn't worth a snit if it's not round robin and I have to spend all darn day making sure every single hit triggers another velocity layer than the other two next to it...

EDIT: Ah, thanks for the answer in the post before this one.
If it's really just velocities... then I'm out. Shame.

Still have to hear yet a single 215 bpm blast beat or 190 bpm double-bass part that profits from non-round/random-robins.

How does the anti-machine gun mode not suffice?

chokehold · Post by **chokehold** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:55 pm

Quietinthedark wrote:How does the anti-machine gun mode not suffice?

chokehold wrote:Still have to hear yet a single 215 bpm blast beat or 190 bpm double-bass part that profits from non-round/random-robins.

Should have been obvious from my quote that I don't know if it will or not. Prove to me that it does, please.

"Prove" not in a cocky "your statement is untrue" way, but in an interested "I've never heard it do anything better than RRs" way.

Shoot a deathcore track through BFD3 and upload it, I'm really and truly curious how it could in any way sound better, or at least if it will suffice.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:44 pm

chokehold wrote:
Quietinthedark wrote:How does the anti-machine gun mode not suffice?
chokehold wrote:Still have to hear yet a single 215 bpm blast beat or 190 bpm double-bass part that profits from non-round/random-robins.
Should have been obvious from my quote that I don't know if it will or not. Prove to me that it does, please.

"Prove" not in a cocky "your statement is untrue" way, but in an interested "I've never heard it do anything better than RRs" way.

Shoot a deathcore track through BFD3 and upload it, I'm really and truly curious how it could in any way sound better, or at least if it will suffice.

I wasn't being cocky intentionally. I've heard awesome results from legacy libraries without any of the current tech approaches. I've heard crap results from the latest and greatest including round robin and AMG.

If you send me a sample MIDI file with something suitable I can crank out some examples. It would be good if you could post an MP3 of the round robin version. I'd be curious if I can get it close as well.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:52 pm

chokehold wrote:The newsletter and website state:
Includes rock, metal, jazz and brush kits
Yet not a single metal demo to be found. Anyone can spot a 2-bar (or longer) drum roll or a fast double-bass part somewhere?

"up to 80 velocity layers" isn't worth a snit if it's not round robin and I have to spend all darn day making sure every single hit triggers another velocity layer than the other two next to it...

EDIT: Ah, thanks for the answer in the post before this one.
If it's really just velocities... then I'm out. Shame.

Still have to hear yet a single 215 bpm blast beat or 190 bpm double-bass part that profits from non-round/random-robins.

1. Anti-Machine Gun (AMG) mode pretty much does exactly what a round robin does. AMG prevents the same sample from ever getting triggered twice in a row.

2. In addition, you can increase the sensitivity of AMG to dictate how wide you want your sample pool to be.

3. BFD3 includes expanded AMG functionality that actually even lets you add some variation to the tone and volume of the samples. Turning these up about a third of the way is a nice sweet spot for people who can't be bothered to program lots of velocity layers.

If you have a MIDI file I can run it through a kit. The drum mix might not be very "metal" as that's not my thing and metal drums tend to have a very unique edge to them, but it should give you an idea at least as to how well the AMG technology works in BFD3.

Genetic_Junk · Post by **Genetic_Junk** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:52 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:
Genetic_Junk wrote:
SJ_Digriz wrote:
Genetic_Junk wrote:Are the grooves duplicates of platinum samples current midi offerings or were they newly created for BFD3?
hmm ... I don't know. I have such a mess of BFD installs at the moment, I'm not sure what goes with what. A little later I can filter by BFD3 and see what comes up.
Thanks. I'll email Fxpansion to see what they say.
from the faq
Code: Select all
The Groove engine features a new set of high-quality Grooves by pro session drummers, with the Groove editor now providing a suite of drum rudiments for easy creation of your own patterns
The rudiment tool is really cool. I didn't use it much during the beta though. I was more caught up in the new mapping functionality.

This was the reply:

The Dance and Hip Hop are new.. the rest are samples of our existing content. As we create more libraries we will be supplying FXP with a few sample palettes to give to their BFD3 users though.

SKoT_FX · Post by **SKoT_FX** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:47 pm

The new Anti-Machine Gun algorithm in BFD3 uses per-velocity-layer round robin. The round robin pool is built from a range of samples -/+ a user-specified dB range on either side, which are then loudness-corrected back to the incoming velocity on the fly to provide tonal variation. You can separately adjust how much loudness variation you want. The pool is traversed in a round-robin fashion, not randomly.

When you use BFD3 with older expansion pack data, you'll see an "upgrade" process as BFD3 performs a number of analyses of the audio to enable new features like this.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:12 pm

SKoT_FX wrote:The new Anti-Machine Gun algorithm in BFD3 uses per-velocity-layer round robin. The round robin pool is built from a range of samples -/+ a user-specified dB range on either side, which are then loudness-corrected back to the incoming velocity on the fly to provide tonal variation. You can separately adjust how much loudness variation you want. The pool is traversed in a round-robin fashion, not randomly.

When you use BFD3 with older expansion pack data, you'll see an "upgrade" process as BFD3 performs a number of analyses of the audio to enable new features like this.

woohoo ... good to be wrong in this case! Although I thought we asked this during beta and got a slightlky different answer .. But, I've drunk many drinks and slept too few hours over that time. I was under the impression that it was still "random-ish" from the pool, but now with the adjustment global loud/tone in conjunction with the articulation AMG var setting. It really doesn't matter, random vs round robin if you ask me. But, some people will be happier with the a defacto round robin I guess.

Gribs · Post by **Gribs** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:54 am

I don't know if you guys have AudioDeluxe accounts, but the price there for the BFD3 upgrade is $149 plus they have a 15% off launch special coupon code FX15.

Ryan99 · Post by **Ryan99** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:16 am

Gribs wrote:I don't know if you guys have AudioDeluxe accounts, but the price there for the BFD3 upgrade is $149 plus they have a 15% off launch special coupon code FX15.

Same thing with JRRshop with the "newsletter15" code.

twolegstoneworks · Post by **twolegstoneworks** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:36 am

I'll most likely upgrade soon, due to the improved interface, but I still feel I'll be paying for the added kits rather than paying for the upgrade of the software. I'd much rather spend money on specific kits I know I need, than having gigabyte upon gigabyte of kit-pieces, I paid for, just taking up space.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:39 am

the software alone is worth it. cymbal swell modeling is way cool. i didn't fully grasp what it was until it dawned on me that "cymbal swell" included hihats as well. way better sounding, even with the older sounds.

Rhytenow · Post by **Rhytenow** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:48 pm

Here's some BFD3 demos:

https://soundcloud.com/fxpansion/sets/bfd3-full-tracks

Here's a YouTube review of BFD3

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:01 pm

Burillo wrote:the software alone is worth it. cymbal swell modeling is way cool. i didn't fully grasp what it was until it dawned on me that "cymbal swell" included hihats as well. way better sounding, even with the older sounds.

exactly! There are three things I am stoked about

1) Cymbal swell is killer ...

2) Unlimited number of kit pieces, which is really needed for cymbals and perc. Makes a HUGE difference.

3) More robust key mapping with better visibility. We went round and round on vertical vs horizontal view of the map among other issues. It is WAY easier to use the mapper now.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:05 pm

2) technically, they aren't unlimited

maximum 64 kit pieces, with maximum of 5 per each kit piece type (e.g. you can only have 5 snares max).

but it's still great!

BFD3 available nowwwww!!