Cakewalk Sonar X3

[chrisby]

A little perspective on the "Cakewalk then vs now" thing... one of the things missing from the discussion is that really, until very recently, almost all daw's could easily push the average user's machines past their limits. A lot of "bugs" across the board could be traced to that issue (and I'm sure other daws were in the same boat). The age of tons or tracks / effects / virtual synths possibly running smoothly on the average machine is really a recent phenomenon. Additionally, as many devs in these forums will attest to the fact that daw software is fairly unique in the amount of third party hardware and software they have to deal with (Apple based products aside). At any given moment in time any moderately complex project is going to be exercising a ton of third party code (and worse, drivers!).

So while I've had my fair share of issue with CW over the years I look at it through a lens with the above in mind. This isn't to apologize for CW but if you were having issues 8 years ago with CW, there's probably a good chance you would have been having issues on any other daw as well. Accordingly, the later in the daw evolution/revolution you switched probably the better any other daw will look to you. Lastly I think this also explains a lot about why some people swear they have no issues while others have tons with any given release. Stability is unfortunately a lowest common denominator game... it only takes one flaky driver/plug/whatever to make a daw look like crap.

PS - I don't really hang out at all at the CW forums but did recently see a clip of Noel playing guitar in his band. He seemed to me to be a great musician... kinda (maybe unfairly) gives me extra faith in his technical chops too.

[clintmartin]

Sonar X3 producer is a very, very powerful daw. All of the old stuff works great, but the new features are truly top shelf. Melodyne with ARA, VST3, Comping lanes to name a few things. Personally I believe the best feature is Sonars Pro-Channel. The Tape sim seems very good with my limited time trying it and the other 12 PC modules are high quality based on a lot of experience. X1d was solid, X2a was awesome but a little quirky. X3 seems to have put it all together. If you want a state of the art daw, Cakewalk's Sonar X3 producer can fill your need. (No I don't work for Cakewalk.)

[satYatunes]

Noel if you will humour me to post my bug list from X2 of the major stuff, and tell me if its been fixed in X3, now THAT would be amazing. Will you do that for me? I've a back injury and don't want to crawl upstairs to get it if it won't get a reply. Just being straight with you. Thanks.

Well, if you post it in the Sonar forum he or users will do it for you. They are doing it for me now.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Has-X3a-fixed ... 00340.aspx

Ok will try that thank you

This is what Andrew wrote in a few page back. Try and schedule a call with him to resolve your issues.

Finally, I reached out a few folks personally on KVR who were unhappy to try and schedule calls with them to go over some of their issues and see if we could right their experience. I got no takers. Why? I don't think they really care about getting help or talking to us. They obviously have another agenda and direct discussion with us is not one of them.

[hibidy]

Well, one can check the CW forums...seems a good barometer I'd think. Seen a few SUEs there...

That forum is really something... something beyond something...

Take a look at the reply that poor guy gets:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/X3-Tape-Emula ... 00350.aspx

Holy hell. Those first three replies are just utter jackasses.

There's that weird feeling all over that forum... can't describe it. Someone mentioned "assimiliation", and I think that's a pretty good describtion.

Hmm. Two negative comments found, out of thousands on a generally very helpful and friendly forum.
The negative conclusions obviously tell more about some individuals (haters) on KVR than about the whole Cakewalk forum, which is generally a helpful and friendly place.

For example, an utterly ugly thread like this one would be absolutely impossible to find there.

Daan22, thanks for pointing this out. In general, what I see going on here in this thread is cheap politician strategies to discredit Cakewalk and SONAR. For example, they go and find one post on our forum where someone may not seem helpful and point to it as fact that every post it like that. They ignore the 99.9% of helpful posts and the overall positive vibe of that community. What they also fail to tell you is that OP had raised some red flags to some users which was the reason for that reply. Again, these are cheap strategies that are factually incorrect, but who cares.

Another tactic being used by a few folks is repeating the same thing over and over again even if it's not true. Several people have stated that SONAR doesn't use a VST wrapper, including the developer at Cakewalk. But I guess if you repeat the same myth over and over again, it becomes fact. Likewise, a handful of people keep posting the same thing over and over again. In many cases, they don't even use the product yet they think if the same the same thing over and over again, that somehow it becomes true and that they represent the majority. In fact they represent the minority.

Yet another tactic being used is to state personal opinions as fact. There's a thread above this one that states "Just offer an option to extend basic X3 with Pro Channel and Pro Channel Modules and I (and many others) might reconsider." There's no factual basis to this comment. We have received few requests for this and the majority of people are upgrading to Producer. But somehow one persons desire is being translated into "many others". There are more examples of that.

All in all, this thread is not indicative of the reality of SONAR or Cakewalk. Over 9 out of 10 people we survey enjoy SONAR and would recommend it to a friend. We talk to users all over the world at shows and events who love SONAR and thank us. The reality is that when you sell as many copies of SONAR as we have over the past decade, you are bound to get a percentage of unhappy customers. These people are the most vocal and try to act like they're the majority when in fact they are not.

Finally, I reached out a few folks personally on KVR who were unhappy to try and schedule calls with them to go over some of their issues and see if we could right their experience. I got no takers. Why? I don't think they really care about getting help or talking to us. They obviously have another agenda and direct discussion with us is not one of them.

So keep this all in mind when you read these posts. If you visit our forum, which actually has current SONAR users, you will see a much different tone.

Thanks,

Andrew

You've got to be kidding.

I've been staying out of this thread. I told you in the pm's WHY I'm finished with sonar, this is as much a cheap shot as what you are accusing "us" of.

Anyways, color me not surprised.

[hibidy]

You know, I've said time and time again that I'm happy for people who have it working. I guess that got lost and only the fact that many of us cannot use the program just means personal insults.

What a joke.

[SuperG]

You've got to be kidding.

I've been staying out of this thread.

Funny, you're the number two poster on the thread...

[SuperG]

You've got to be kidding.

I've been staying out of this thread.

Funny, you're the number two poster on the thread...

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

You know, I've said time and time again that I'm happy for people who have it working. I guess that got lost and only the fact that many of us cannot use the program just means personal insults.

What a joke.

This wasn't a personal insult or directed at you personally. Please don't take offense. I was just stating my observation, much like you have the right to do as well.

[Gonga]

Well, one can check the CW forums...seems a good barometer I'd think. Seen a few SUEs there...

That forum is really something... something beyond something...

Take a look at the reply that poor guy gets:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/X3-Tape-Emula ... 00350.aspx

Holy hell. Those first three replies are just utter jackasses.

There's that weird feeling all over that forum... can't describe it. Someone mentioned "assimiliation", and I think that's a pretty good describtion.

Hmm. Two negative comments found, out of thousands on a generally very helpful and friendly forum.
The negative conclusions obviously tell more about some individuals (haters) on KVR than about the whole Cakewalk forum, which is generally a helpful and friendly place.

For example, an utterly ugly thread like this one would be absolutely impossible to find there.

Daan22, thanks for pointing this out. In general, what I see going on here in this thread is cheap politician strategies to discredit Cakewalk and SONAR. For example, they go and find one post on our forum where someone may not seem helpful and point to it as fact that every post it like that. They ignore the 99.9% of helpful posts and the overall positive vibe of that community. What they also fail to tell you is that OP had raised some red flags to some users which was the reason for that reply. Again, these are cheap strategies that are factually incorrect, but who cares.

Another tactic being used by a few folks is repeating the same thing over and over again even if it's not true. Several people have stated that SONAR doesn't use a VST wrapper, including the developer at Cakewalk. But I guess if you repeat the same myth over and over again, it becomes fact. Likewise, a handful of people keep posting the same thing over and over again. In many cases, they don't even use the product yet they think if the same the same thing over and over again, that somehow it becomes true and that they represent the majority. In fact they represent the minority.

Yet another tactic being used is to state personal opinions as fact. There's a thread above this one that states "Just offer an option to extend basic X3 with Pro Channel and Pro Channel Modules and I (and many others) might reconsider." There's no factual basis to this comment. We have received few requests for this and the majority of people are upgrading to Producer. But somehow one persons desire is being translated into "many others". There are more examples of that.

All in all, this thread is not indicative of the reality of SONAR or Cakewalk. Over 9 out of 10 people we survey enjoy SONAR and would recommend it to a friend. We talk to users all over the world at shows and events who love SONAR and thank us. The reality is that when you sell as many copies of SONAR as we have over the past decade, you are bound to get a percentage of unhappy customers. These people are the most vocal and try to act like they're the majority when in fact they are not.

Finally, I reached out a few folks personally on KVR who were unhappy to try and schedule calls with them to go over some of their issues and see if we could right their experience. I got no takers. Why? I don't think they really care about getting help or talking to us. They obviously have another agenda and direct discussion with us is not one of them.

So keep this all in mind when you read these posts. If you visit our forum, which actually has current SONAR users, you will see a much different tone.

Thanks,

Andrew

Here is a problem. I've contacted support 2-3 times and submitted bug reports. Users can't shut off the automatic key bindings such as "A" "B" "C" and "D." When I attempt to enter text into text fields in U-He software, numerous windows pop up instead. The solutions offered me, such as giving keyboard "focus" to the synth, or editing key bindings, both of which I had already tried, do not in fact work at all. This is a big problem for me as well as many others, and has been a problem for at least three years. I would love it if this could be fixed. I have other relatively minor issues, but if this were fixed I might stick with Cakewalk. I am currently learning to use Cubase 7...

[satYatunes]

Here's a question I might as well ask here, since Im not that keen on the CW forums. Can anyone confirm if any of the plugins that were included with older Producer versions, eg PX64, VX64, TS64, etc or even the PC76 and PC4K ProChannel modules would be unavailable to X3 if I went for the Studio version this time around?

Also, is R-Mix completely gone now? Will the old version still work in the same manner V-Vocal is supposed to?

I can confirm the PX64 and VX64 even working in Cubase. It's just VSTs.

Sure, that makes sense, I already use them in Bidule and Live. Im assuming Amber and Breverb wont, though; despite being VST they were tied and would only run in Producer.

Pro Channel modules are going to work in X3 Studio and Producer.

Right, so if I already have them, I should be able to keep them. Cheers.

Im still thinking I'll wait for a sale, though. X2 Pro to X3 Studio is as much as I paid for X1 Pro to X2 Pro.

If you upgrade to SONAR X3 Studio or Producer, you will keep all your current ProChannel modules and of course your VSTs would work. Hope that helps.

Is X3 upgrade standalone or previous version needs to be installed? I remember X1 was standalone, it didn't matter if 8.5 was installed or not.

[flugel45]

Is X3 upgrade standalone or previous version needs to be installed? I remember X1 was standalone, it didn't matter if 8.5 was installed or not.

X3 upgrade and full are the same. IOW, it doesn't need a previous version to be installed.

Of course, if you are coming from a previous version, it will migrate your settings. (After the upgrade, you do need to check your interface driver settings and rescan your plugins, as it is a new setup as far as the software is concerned).

[Mitch I.]

Gonga,

I've also seen the "key binding" problem you're talking about. I think the issue is that "Give keystrokes to plugin" doesn't work well.

Here's a workaround. When I want to type in a field in a plugin, I type into Windows Notepad and paste that into the plugin field.

Mitch I.

[Gonga]

Thanks, yes, that's what I've been doing for three years. No more.

[flugel45]

Thanks, yes, that's what I've been doing for three years. No more.

Are you saying this is still happening to you in X3?
I haven't seen this, nor have I seen anyone in the forums complain about it (yet).

Maybe wait for the demo - or there's a detailed fix list released - before assuming anything about old bugs...?

Apparently you have 3+ years invested with X1/2... I'd wait for proof that X3 is (or isn't) worth upgrading to, before assuming your needs haven't been addressed.

Just sayin'.

[vespesian]

So keep this all in mind when you read these posts. If you visit our forum, which actually has current SONAR users, you will see a much different tone.

Thanks,

Andrew

Sorry - but I beg to differ. The tone in recent sonar x forum threads is fine - if you a) don't air any misgivings re: cakewalk or sonar, or b)strike some "senior" members as not "one of the good guys" (their words). Members and staff are way, way, way too sensitive to criticism - and haven't learned that the best way to deal with "trolls" is not to feed them. Pulling threads? Really? Frankly, I believe this vicious cheerleader forum atmosphere contributes to the bad rep sonar has in some quarters as an "unprofessional" DAW, which, of course, is ridiculous. BUT - it's one of the reasons I ditched X2a for Cubase 7.

So that bad reputation that you agree is ridiculous is one of the reasons you left Sonar? That statement pretty much sums you up.

No - the I meant tone of the forums is one of the reasons I left, not sonar's reputation. BTW - thanks for proving my point.