The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

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Regarding KVR:
My impression is, that there simply is a huge crowd of frustrated people here.
People who in one way or other are making music or want to and are not totally successful with it - for whatever reason.
(I can't imagine that there are too many really successful musicians taking part in "those" threads - they have work to do).

Now if you are not successful or not really making music, it is very easy in this day and age to blame that on the tools.
A lot of anger can be generated that way.

I've seen the same in the 3D industry for many many years - people (me included) get into a rage because their tool doesn't have this feature or that, crashes in this situation or creates errors in that.

All this while somebody else is playing happily on a crappy guitar the most beautiful things and doesn't give a dungbeatles dreamball about if there is -150 dB of hiss or if the phase is half a degree off.

The Bitwig threads are a great example for that.
People with no knowledge about how involved programming something like this really is, get themselves into a frenzy how long it takes.
Those same people go into another frenzy if version 1.0 doesn't have all the features that they use in software that is at version 9 or whatever, isn't 100% stable or differs half a % in performance...

There is all the talk about how similar Bitwig is to Ableton Live and that this is cheating and bad and overall immoral.
But then again some people expect BW to have everything that Live, Cubase, Reaper, Studio One etc. has, basically in exactly the same form or "they won't use it".

And if it will cost more than 99.-$ it's an outrage!


Conclusion: Humans are very funny and a really lovable bunch - most of the time. ;-)



But to help those who forgot: it works like this:

Bitwig is Software (TM).
Some things will not be to your personal liking and others you may find yourself floored by.
Some solutions you will like better in other software and some you would be happy to have in that same other software.
It will perform perfectly on some systems and for some peoples needs and less perfect on/for others.
Some people will like it and others won't.

Will it be the DAW to end all DAWs? No.
Will it solve world hunger or create peace? No.
Will it make yourself a better person, husband, musician, entertainer, father, artist, friend? No.

What it WILL do: Some people will like the workflow, certain features will inspire them, certain ideas will make them happy.
It finally may give Live a sparing partner (which it is in dire need of IMHO).
It will bring the whole industry one notch forward in the overall hunt for perfection and better tools.
Like every other new tool and solution.


Now regarding the questions about the beta:

I'm happy to talk about it and explain how some things work, but I'll only do so if I find the question reasonable, friendly and interesting.

See, this is still in beta and evolving.
Even without a NDA, I feel inclined to be a bit reluctant with certain information I don't know is final yet.
It's not that as a beta tester you have all the knowledge about the software or all information about what may be planned in the future.

With that said:

As for Layers/Groups/Racks: As was said already, you have the Instrument Layer Tool that allows you to drop as many instruments into it as you want (each with it's own device chain, effects etc.). There also is an FX Layer tool that does the same for FX-only groups. Those can be saved as presets, so I think we're covered there?

I haven't looked into Drumracks yet.

Can anybody point out a VST3 Synth that supports per note modulation? I'd be happy to give it a try.

Overall routing looks similar to Live to me so far. You can tell each track what output it should use, can create return tracks, can define a cue/preview output...



So much for the moment from me.

Cheers and Carpe Diem everybody :-)

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." · Rumi
UrbanFlow.art · Instagram · YouTube

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So much midi talk; understandable. But what about audio handling and features for Bitwig?

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ThomasHelzle wrote:Regarding KVR:

...
Those are all valid points, the "great ones" could surely make good, modern music with Cubase SX1 and early 2000's VSTs, a good tradesman never blames his tools and so on...

However, I think Bitwig really brought this on themselves... You don't announce a revolutionary new commercial DAW when it's still years away from being ready, that was a serious marketing mistake that seems to stem from a severe misjudgement on their part... and that is why they get endless ridicule on KVR. Bitwig should've been a complete secret until July 2013 (assuming it really does drop some time this year).

However, to the small number of users who are literally not spending any time with their current DAW in anticipation of Bitwig, your statements probably apply...

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jeffh wrote:However, I think Bitwig really brought this on themselves... You don't announce a revolutionary new commercial DAW when it's still years away from being ready, that was a serious marketing mistake that seems to stem from a severe misjudgement on their part... and that is why they get endless ridicule on KVR. Bitwig should've been a complete secret until July 2013 (assuming it really does drop some time this year).
Well, it did helped me to hold on Live 8 and save on the steep fee of Suite 8 to Suite Live 9 for one.
I'm sure some of us here are even regretting the jump to Live 9 based on the "denial factor" of BW being a real thing rather than a damn cats Vaporware!!! :nutter:

I don't need a "Secret". Those guys at BW gave me a perspective and actually helped to control my GAS :hihi:
ABEFLGMOPPRRST :phones:

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jeffh wrote:However, I think Bitwig really brought this on themselves...
That is exactly the misconception:

They didn't "bring anything on themselves"!
They are happily coding software trying to make it as good as possible.

People HERE bring stuff upon themselves. Drama, Anger, Frustration, Hate, you name it.

These threads are not about Bitwig, but about KVR users.

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." · Rumi
UrbanFlow.art · Instagram · YouTube

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liquidsound wrote:
jeffh wrote:However, I think Bitwig really brought this on themselves... You don't announce a revolutionary new commercial DAW when it's still years away from being ready, that was a serious marketing mistake that seems to stem from a severe misjudgement on their part... and that is why they get endless ridicule on KVR. Bitwig should've been a complete secret until July 2013 (assuming it really does drop some time this year).
Well, it did helped me to hold on Live 8 and save on the steep fee of Suite 8 to Suite Live 9 for one.
I'm sure some of us here are even regretting the jump to Live 9 based on the "denial factor" of BW being a real thing rather than a damn cats Vaporware!!! :nutter:

I don't need a "Secret". Those guys at BW gave me a perspective and actually helped to control my GAS :hihi:
Same here :-)

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." · Rumi
UrbanFlow.art · Instagram · YouTube

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ThomasHelzle wrote:
jeffh wrote:However, I think Bitwig really brought this on themselves...
That is exactly the misconception:

They didn't "bring anything on themselves"!
They are happily coding software trying to make it as good as possible.

People HERE bring stuff upon themselves. Drama, Anger, Frustration, Hate, you name it.

These threads are not about Bitwig, but about KVR users.

Cheers,

Tom
Well said.

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ThomasHelzle wrote:
jeffh wrote:However, I think Bitwig really brought this on themselves...
That is exactly the misconception:

They didn't "bring anything on themselves"!
They are happily coding software trying to make it as good as possible.

People HERE bring stuff upon themselves. Drama, Anger, Frustration, Hate, you name it.

These threads are not about Bitwig, but about KVR users.

Cheers,

Tom
Actually... It's about SOME INDIVIDUALS who happen to frequent KVR.

This is not about KVR, but it just so happens that KVR is a place people can write out their opinions whatever they may be.

I think there's a greater majority who are just curious to see what Bitwig has to offer. That curiosity does not include anger, drama, frustration or hate... none of that nonsense.

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Oh and Tom... I do realize you probably see the worst (and best) of KVR via the U-he forums. Please note I'm not baiting you to talk about that, but it's a similar story with many posts asking "is it ready yet? will it have X,Y,Z capabilities? Don't ask for those X, Y, Z features because then they can't finish that other feature. How much longer because I've been waiting forever?" Bla, bla, bla.... All I can say is that I tip my hat (if I were wearing one) to U-he for never snapping because I think most would have by now. Developing ANYTHING commercial takes a long time.

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jeffh wrote:
ThomasHelzle wrote:Regarding KVR:

...
Those are all valid points, the "great ones" could surely make good, modern music with Cubase SX1 and early 2000's VSTs, a good tradesman never blames his tools and so on...

However, I think Bitwig really brought this on themselves... You don't announce a revolutionary new commercial DAW when it's still years away from being ready, that was a serious marketing mistake that seems to stem from a severe misjudgement on their part... and that is why they get endless ridicule on KVR. Bitwig should've been a complete secret until July 2013 (assuming it really does drop some time this year).

However, to the small number of users who are literally not spending any time with their current DAW in anticipation of Bitwig, your statements probably apply...

So if you make even one mistake (I don't agree it was a mistake) everyone should ridicule you forever about it... you have such an intolerant and ugly view of how life "should" be.

I agree with Thomas!

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ThomasHelzle wrote:
As for Layers/Groups/Racks: As was said already, you have the Instrument Layer Tool that allows you to drop as many instruments into it as you want (each with it's own device chain, effects etc.). There also is an FX Layer tool that does the same for FX-only groups. Those can be saved as presets, so I think we're covered there?
Tom
Sweet! Glad to hear that is there. And to confirm, you can also drop 3rd party instruments in there as well yes? And... (sorry, but they are not quite covered yet! :-) )

What facility is there for how the instruments are layered? I looked at the image of the Layer Tool but it gives no indication other than what appears to be mute/solo and volume control. Can you do a keyboard split? Or split by volume range? oh, and can you nest one inside another?

Another subject...

Another thing I would be interested to hear about are follow actions or the Bitwig equivalent to accomplishing this task. In case you do not know what follow actions are, it is the instructions for what happens after a clip completes. Does it go to the next clip, repeat itself and so on. Live's follow actions are capable, but I have always thought that they could work better/more intuitively. I'm curious how Bitwig has approached the task.

Thanks for your replies. Some of the Bitwig videos are very impressive!

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pdxindy wrote:Sweet! Glad to hear that is there. And to confirm, you can also drop 3rd party instruments in there as well yes? And... (sorry, but they are not quite covered yet! :-) )

What facility is there for how the instruments are layered? I looked at the image of the Layer Tool but it gives no indication other than what appears to be mute/solo and volume control. Can you do a keyboard split? Or split by volume range? oh, and can you nest one inside another?

Another subject...

Another thing I would be interested to hear about are follow actions or the Bitwig equivalent to accomplishing this task. In case you do not know what follow actions are, it is the instructions for what happens after a clip completes. Does it go to the next clip, repeat itself and so on. Live's follow actions are capable, but I have always thought that they could work better/more intuitively. I'm curious how Bitwig has approached the task.

Thanks for your replies. Some of the Bitwig videos are very impressive!
- Third party is handled exactly like internal in the layer node.

- For the layering: ATM there is a note tool that you can insert in the layers which allows you to set note and velocity ranges.
But this is one case where I don't know if this part is final. But if you remember that Bitwig is nodal in the background, IMO it makes sense to keep the RISC/KISS principle ;-)

- Didn't try nesting, but so far I haven't found anything that you can't nest.

- Follow actions is more powerful than Live: You have "Return to Arrangement" (so you can fire a clip while playing the arrangement and when it's finished it goes back to the Arrangement :-) You also have "Return to last clip" which does the same for clips - pretty cool imo. Then there is "Round Robin", "Stop" and then basically all the modes Live has.

- Just checked out "Drum Machine" basically the same as Lives Drum Racks. Each pad can have it's own Device chain and you have a FX Button to include global effects. There are specific synths for Kick, Snare, HH etc. NICE :-)
And of course you have Presets (nothing in BW without them).

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." · Rumi
UrbanFlow.art · Instagram · YouTube

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Hi all
Sorry to have kept you waiting with regard to the Bitwig release. There have been some minor drawbacks and we had to simplify the code a little.
However, it is soon to be released and tested. Here is a sneak peak:

Image

Cheers
Last edited by IncarnateX on Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ThomasHelzle wrote:
- Just checked out "Drum Machine" basically the same as Lives Drum Racks. Each pad can have it's own Device chain and you have a FX Button to include global effects. There are specific synths for Kick, Snare, HH etc. NICE :-)
And of course you have Presets (nothing in BW without them).

Cheers,

Tom
Thanks for the info Tom. Can you tell me if the drum rack have return tracks for their own send effects. And also do the drum racks pads have the ability to send to the master return channels for send effects like reverb and delay? And finally can the pads send levels be mapped to macros of that pad.

thanks!

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IncarnateX wrote:Hi all
Sorry to have kept you waiting with regard to the Bitwig release. There have been some minor drawbacks and we had to simplify the code a little.
However, it is soon to be released and tested. Here is a sneak peak:

Image

Cheers
Aewwszumness!

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