The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[ThomasHelzle]

@Tom and @Andy: Can you say anything about the copy protection system used by BW? One of the things that made me sell my copy of Live was how quickly I got locked out from activations and had to send an email begging to use the software I paid for (and I was trying to help them beta test of all things!).

If it is C/R I hope it's a little more like Spectrasonics and FXPansion, less like Live...Registration file or key would be ideal though.

I don't know if the current system for the beta is the same as it will be later, sorry, so I will not go into it any deeper.
I never had problems with Lives protection and I don't see any with BW coming up



@elxsound: no video that I can see.



Cheers,

Tom

[ZenPunkHippy]

@Tom and @Andy: Can you say anything about the copy protection system used by BW? One of the things that made me sell my copy of Live was how quickly I got locked out from activations and had to send an email begging to use the software I paid for (and I was trying to help them beta test of all things!).

If it is C/R I hope it's a little more like Spectrasonics and FXPansion, less like Live...Registration file or key would be ideal though.

It appears to be similar to Live - online challenge response with a limited number of activations but there is an option to download an activation file from the beta account. The account records which machines the beta is installed on.

It will be up to Bitwig licensing policies to determine how easy it is to acquire new unlocks etc.

One thing I did notice the first time it ran was an option to "Use just once" (or similar, can't recall exact phrase). Possibly hinting at demo mode, similar to Live.

Peace,
Andy.

[ras.s]

Sorry if these have been asked already, but what I've been wondering about ..


Is the modular environment there already?

How is the scripting? Is it just about external devices or about internals too?

How is the Linux version?

And not so much about features, but.. Does it feel more of an instrument than "traditional hosts" ?

[ThomasHelzle]

Sorry if these have been asked already, but what I've been wondering about ..


Is the modular environment there already?

How is the scripting? Is it just about external devices or about internals too?

How is the Linux version?

And not so much about features, but.. Does it feel more of an instrument than "traditional hosts" ?

- AFAIK the modular environment is there in the background, but not accessible in version 1.0 (I think they say that on the homepage). They showed it at Musikmesse and it looked gorgeous.
IMO you can feel the modular approach even through the GUI - I look forward to access that part

- I know only about the controller scripting, but I have no idea what the plans are otherwise.

- I wondered the same but have no Linux installed ATM.

- As for the last question: To me, yes.
Things like the modulation system and automation options bring things closer together. Flexible on the fly switching between clips and the timeline on a per-track basis make it more musical IMO. The included effects and instruments sound very good to my ears and are - IMO - more interestingly laid out.
Live was a big step in that direction already compared to traditional hosts and BW to me feels like a further evolution of those ideas.

But in the end I can't answer this for you of course.

Cheers,

Tom

[ras.s]

Yea, I've understood the modular system is the basis of the instruments (maybe I'm wrong there but I've got that impression) -- I was just thinking maybe they have opened it up, it taking long and such ..

How is the controller scripting then? What's possible with that? It's not just mapping a MIDI controller, now is it.. ?

Yea you can't really answer that last one for me, but thanks still. I've never 'clicked' with Live, but I'd really love a sequencer that would be more of an instrument in its own right, than just a recorder & mixer combo. From the videos I've seen I've got the impression I might like Bitwig, because it has both clips and a timeline, and they look like they're quite good together, as you say. And the modulations, oh yea..

Is there a mixer view, though?


Thanks -- and nice that you folks can talk about it now, looks like the ball has started rolling, and it's not one of those yucky fur balls the cats cough up!

[rockstar_not]

The answers at least have me believing that there is an actual set of code somewhere instead of someone that is just good with GUI design and video editing skills pulling off a grand joke on the music software community.

I really cannot understand why somebody would consider that.

Because of the internet silence, I began thinking the whole thing, from the name on down to the demo videos COULD have been done by someone/some company looking to get hired to do GUI design as a grand marketing spectacle for his/her/their GUI and video edit skills.

[Ogopogo]

Well I suppose that would be interesting to have on your resmue. Aspiring graphic designers take note.

[dsan@mail.com]

It was a troll thread. Possibly deleted, dunno.

This is [exactly] how it turned out although the OP seemed genuinely interested in discussing BWS with the original post and questions presented.

Subsequently another thread came out but appears to have been abandoned now since the discussion here has become genuine interest in the developement of BWS and what it has to offer.

Some questions in the subsequent thread go unanswered, although it appears they may have been reposted in this thread, perhaps stated differently.

What a great thread this has become. Lots of interesting and intriguing information.

Thanks to all contributors for sharing what you can and have! It seems a lot of anxious people are less anxious now.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[pc999]

@Tom and @Andy: Can you say anything about the copy protection system used by BW? One of the things that made me sell my copy of Live was how quickly I got locked out from activations and had to send an email begging to use the software I paid for (and I was trying to help them beta test of all things!).

If it is C/R I hope it's a little more like Spectrasonics and FXPansion, less like Live...Registration file or key would be ideal though.

It appears to be similar to Live - online challenge response with a limited number of activations but there is an option to download an activation file from the beta account. The account records which machines the beta is installed on.

It will be up to Bitwig licensing policies to determine how easy it is to acquire new unlocks etc.

One thing I did notice the first time it ran was an option to "Use just once" (or similar, can't recall exact phrase). Possibly hinting at demo mode, similar to Live.

Peace,
Andy.

This (and price) is the thing I am more worried about now, if it is more like Steam like I can live with (but not very happy with it) although I really dislike some of the modern DRM systems

Anyway if those two are good, I think there is a really good chance of becoming a BWS user!

[pdxindy]

If you think that something important is missing from BW, keep in mind that this is 1.0
Look at Live 1.0 and BW looks VERY impressive

Cheers,

Tom

Of course... but the choice today is not between Live 1 and BW 1... it is between Live 9 and Bitwig 1... even so it appears to stand up fairly well.

One other thing I meant to ask but forgot... one of the painful limitations of Live is it's handling of midi channels internally (collapsing all channels to 1)... How is Bitwig in this area?

[ThomasHelzle]

If you think that something important is missing from BW, keep in mind that this is 1.0
Look at Live 1.0 and BW looks VERY impressive

Cheers,

Tom

Of course... but the choice today is not between Live 1 and BW 1... it is between Live 9 and Bitwig 1... even so it appears to stand up fairly well.

One other thing I meant to ask but forgot... one of the painful limitations of Live is it's handling of midi channels internally (collapsing all channels to 1)... How is Bitwig in this area?

Sure, I personally am in the lucky position to not be under any production constraints.
I mostly value tools that inspire me and sometimes I even enjoy limitations when they are somehow interesting.
The Live 9 Beta process was a real downer for me - and it also was the result of 4 years of work...

I'm investigating Midi myself ATM with the Bitwig support, so stay tuned on that.

Cheers,

Tom

[Ogopogo]

Of course... but the choice today is not between Live 1 and BW 1... it is between Live 9 and Bitwig 1... even so it appears to stand up fairly well.

^That's true, but considering they will both be around $500, lots of people are going to want to invest in whichever one looks like it will be better over time, so what's coming up should be taken into account. And this is one area where I really (want to) trust Bitwig. I mean they basically formed to make a better Live and give people a lot of the most popular feature requests while people were complaining about Live stagnating. Which leads me to believe that they will plug any holes and continue to innovate and ironically Ableton will be the ones trying to be like them in the future. And their apparent insistence on taking the time needed to get things right would seem to bode well for performance and stability. But as you say, Bitwig is already pretty close.

Does anyone know of anything from Live that Bitwig is actually missing? Because I can't think of much off of the top of my head.

There's audio to midi, but I've found that that doesn't work great in Live with more complex stuff, which is usually the stuff I'd want to translate. Also the Bitwig guys said they have some of their own ideas for implementing it eventually.

There's Max for Live but hopefully the modular system will be available in v2 and considering on how they improved on almost everything else and how it will be native rather than sort of tacked on like M4L I'm thinking it will be better.

There are less effects and instruments which is kind of a bummer but you can always use plugs and I was never crazy about Live's instruments.

[Ogopogo]

Oh there is also the a/b crossfading functionality. Bad for DJs I guess, but I have never looked into that.

[ThomasHelzle]

Since this was asked: here is a screenshot of the mixer view with audio editing below and project info to the right:



The screenshot is fullscreen from my 30" so you should rightclick and "load image" or whatever it's called in your browser of choice to see it 1:1.

The clips etc. are mixed, some are from the factory content (good stuff IMO), some is self-generated and other is from my growing collection of loops and sounds.

As somebody mentioned, you can have clips in the effects tracks (otherwise called returns or sends) and even on the master.

Tracks show their latency as you can see - nice!

The "Layered Instr." Track is unfolded to show the three layers inside. This is how it works for the Drum Machine as well.

You can directly access and see your devices on the tracks in the mixer too.

Below the mixer you can see the layered editing, here with two audio loops. Very nice to edit things in context.
There's a time selection going over both (you can also just select something in one of them of course).
This editor can be scaled up as you see fit (the device chain can't). And sure you can hide the editor or see the device chain or automation editing instead.

In the info panel on the left you see the options for audio editing, some more are in the rightclick menu.

Cheers,

Tom

[ThomasHelzle]

How do you pick how many clips show up in the editor? Is it easy to add/remove/switch clips?

It simply shows the clips you select (with SHIFT for a row/area or CTRL for singles), but then you can lock them with the little lock in front of each clip in the list so they stay visible even if you change your selection. Very intuitive IMO.

This is also where the full screen Editor shines if you want to work on many clips at once.

Cheers,

Tom