Reason 3 features!

[snooky]

If they get rid of the toyish look, the cables, and add VSTi support they may be able to finally sell a few copies. Everyone knows that with that hardware rack look and no VSTi support Reason is nothing but a rack of crap.

Robert

Very true...

I can't believe people are still defending its lack of VST support by saying it would make it less 'stable'. I haven't noticed Renoise crashing because of VST support...

It´s not really ´bout VST support, but the idea that you don´t really need VSTs when using reason...don´t like the sequencer? rewire it!
Or, bounce all tracks as audio and put them in your sequencer of choise and then add whatever fx you want.
That´s how I do it, I really almost always start a track in Reason and I´m on V 1.01!!
And, the included sound library BLOWS AWAY any included library with any other host...only that is reason (no pun intended...well ok) to by it imo.

[kp]

Surely if VST support might make Reason (or a.n.other product) unstable because of badly coded VSTs, then we/you should be hassling the developers of these unstable VSTs to write better code so that everyone can benefit?

[anopenscroll]

If they get rid of the toyish look, the cables, and add VSTi support they may be able to finally sell a few copies. Everyone knows that with that hardware rack look and no VSTi support Reason is nothing but a rack of crap.

Robert

Very true...

I can't believe people are still defending its lack of VST support by saying it would make it less 'stable'. I haven't noticed Renoise crashing because of VST support...

It´s not really ´bout VST support, but the idea that you don´t really need VSTs when using reason...don´t like the sequencer? rewire it!
Or, bounce all tracks as audio and put them in your sequencer of choise and then add whatever fx you want.
That´s how I do it, I really almost always start a track in Reason and I´m on V 1.01!!
And, the included sound library BLOWS AWAY any included library with any other host...only that is reason (no pun intended...well ok) to by it imo.

Please man, reason has a 'varied' sound bank but all the samples sound like pure crap without a ton of effects applied to each one of em. Atleast they could ensure all the samples are stereo or higher resolution

[xg2]

Surely if VST support might make Reason (or a.n.other product) unstable because of badly coded VSTs, then we/you should be hassling the developers of these unstable VSTs to write better code so that everyone can benefit?

Exactly. The vast majority of VSTs work okay with all VST hosts. That's why KVR-VST exists! That's why the vast majority of people use VST hosts, and not Reason. Reason is overhyped and overpriced. I'm sure it's a very good program, but I'm sick of hearing how 'amazing' it is in the press, when in actual fact, it's no better than the cheapest (or FREE) VST host and all the free VSTs and a few commercial ones if you need 'em.

The problem is that so many newcomers to computer music read the hype about Reason, know nothing about the existence of VSTs and VST hosts, and then tell other people how 'amazing' Reason is, and then they go and buy it too! Then they harp on about how much they've saved, if they had bought a "whole rack of synths" it would have cost thousands - as if Reason contains the only soft synths on the planet!

I've yet to hear any songs on Reason that couldn't have been done in Buzz. Listen to Hunz's stuff. Nothing made on Reason that I've ever heard can touch it. Listen to N/A's 'Rappin' with my friends' and 'Future' as well, produced on Buzz too.
http://www.hiromimatsumoto.com/na/

I'm not saying that these songs couldn't have just as easily been produced with Reason, just that Buzz is free, and Reason isn't, and Buzz offers VST support, and Reason doesn't.

And BuzzLE is going to really kick ass when it's finally stable.

[xg2]

If they get rid of the toyish look, the cables, and add VSTi support they may be able to finally sell a few copies. Everyone knows that with that hardware rack look and no VSTi support Reason is nothing but a rack of crap.

Robert

Very true...

I can't believe people are still defending its lack of VST support by saying it would make it less 'stable'. I haven't noticed Renoise crashing because of VST support...

It´s not really ´bout VST support, but the idea that you don´t really need VSTs when using reason...don´t like the sequencer? rewire it!
Or, bounce all tracks as audio and put them in your sequencer of choise and then add whatever fx you want.
That´s how I do it, I really almost always start a track in Reason and I´m on V 1.01!!
And, the included sound library BLOWS AWAY any included library with any other host...only that is reason (no pun intended...well ok) to by it imo.

Please man, reason has a 'varied' sound bank but all the samples sound like pure crap without a ton of effects applied to each one of em. Atleast they could ensure all the samples are stereo or higher resolution

Of course, you have to bear in mind that most Reason users haven't got a clue about VSTis, and think that any soft synth is "amazing" and "like a whole rack of synths"...

I wasn't impressed with Reason's sounds either. Now Plugsound - that impressed me. What a shame you can't use them with Reason.

Oh, I forgot! You can use them with Reason - you just need to buy Rewire and Cubase in order to do so! Brilliant! What a bargain!

But doesn't that make poor old Reason "unstable"?

Can't have it both ways.

As you say, take away the effects and Reason's built in sounds are not at all special. Do the same with Plugsound. I'd rather have a free or cheap VST host and three of the Plugsounds packs than Reason, any day. It just proves that marketing and hype are more important than quality...

[xg2]

minimum system specs

Intel Pentium II/233 MHz or better
64 mb RAM

However, how many people are working on 233-300 mhz computers these days? especially when we have 3000+ mhz rated systems...

i teach reason at the university college of bergen.
so i teach reason to students who will become music teachers.
the idea is that reason is something they can actually use with the stone age computers they are likely to find when they find jobs later.
probably a small market, but an important one

Well, God help us all...

[quincy]

minimum system specs

Intel Pentium II/233 MHz or better
64 mb RAM

However, how many people are working on 233-300 mhz computers these days? especially when we have 3000+ mhz rated systems...

i teach reason at the university college of bergen.
so i teach reason to students who will become music teachers.
the idea is that reason is something they can actually use with the stone age computers they are likely to find when they find jobs later.
probably a small market, but an important one

Well, God help us all...

Wanker

[Sicklecell666]

minimum system specs

Intel Pentium II/233 MHz or better
64 mb RAM

However, how many people are working on 233-300 mhz computers these days? especially when we have 3000+ mhz rated systems...

i teach reason at the university college of bergen.
so i teach reason to students who will become music teachers.
the idea is that reason is something they can actually use with the stone age computers they are likely to find when they find jobs later.
probably a small market, but an important one

Well, God help us all...

Wanker

[xg2]

The Props should have distributed a SDK to providers to allow for a Reason standard plugin which would essentially have to be reviewed by the Props and pass testing before being allowed to sell.

I have brought this exact same idea up several times here at kvr.. so maybe you read my idea and picked it up subconciously

I also even mailed my idea to the props directly in their suggestions thingy.. about a year ago.

so uhh.. nice idea I agree with you

That would be a HOT idea & a very elegant solution to the VSTi 'problem'.

There IS no VSTi 'problem'. Except for the Props' stubbornness...

Why make another plug-in standard? We don't need another one. If a VST crashes Reason, then just contact the developers and ask them to fix the problem. This happens all the time with new hosts that come out - they start off having a few VSTis that crash, the developers contact the VSTis' developers, and they fix the problem.

Simple.

The solution to the problems with Reason are simple: don't use it - use a VST host...

[quincy]

The Props should have distributed a SDK to providers to allow for a Reason standard plugin which would essentially have to be reviewed by the Props and pass testing before being allowed to sell.

I have brought this exact same idea up several times here at kvr.. so maybe you read my idea and picked it up subconciously

I also even mailed my idea to the props directly in their suggestions thingy.. about a year ago.

so uhh.. nice idea I agree with you

That would be a HOT idea & a very elegant solution to the VSTi 'problem'.

There IS no VSTi 'problem'. Except for the Props' stubbornness...

Why make another plug-in standard? We don't need another one. If a VST crashes Reason, then just contact the developers and ask them to fix the problem. This happens all the time with new hosts that come out - they start off having a few VSTis that crash, the developers contact the VSTis' developers, and they fix the problem.

Simple.

The solution to the problems with Reason are simple: don't use it - use a VST host...

I can only assume you aren't a programmer. If you were, you might realise why they will probably never open up their beautifully stable code to the outside world.

Reason WILL lose its stability(a major reason lots of people like it) if they open it up. Plus, standard VST's won't fit into the modular architecture that reason is so good at. As a standalone studio, which is what it is meant to be, it works just fine. Why mess with that.

Giving Reason VST support is turning it into something it aint, and will never be.

[Grain Bastard]

I'd rather have a free or cheap VST host and three of the Plugsounds packs than Reason, any day. It just proves that marketing and hype are more important than quality...

Is that a new feature in Reason 3? Hijacking threads again because 'you' don't like something - same shit different forum.......

So f**king what, you prefer something else - well I also prefer something else to Reason but that doesn't mean Reason isn't the tool for someone else. Unless a totally identical clone to Reason comes out then if people want Reason, let them have it - If they buy it because they know no 'better' then you learn by your mistakes. You managed to find an alternative or do you think that your some special case who is the only capable person of searching the net for a few freebies. This site and many other internet music making sites all have links to free software and all the major music making mags have links to sites like these or references to them. CM (your other 'problem') even gave a shit load of free synths, samplers and sequencers away so for someone to get 'duped' into paying for Reason is totally absurd when anyone getting into making music would surely buy, or browse a magazine like that.

You really need to get over this, its been about 4 years since you first started going on about it and in that time, thousands of people have had fun using Reason and judging by the title of this thread, some people are still using it despite all of the problems with it in your opinion.

Anyway, Reason 3 should offer more flavours of the same things its got IMO - new synths (a new analog and maybe another wavetablely type), maybe a drum synth, some other filters and some mastering type setup. The abilty to load 'macros' of synths and effects etc would be usefull as to re-use effect configurations rather than remaking them which is often time consuming when they start to get complex and therefore interesting.

Anyway, Just MHO.

[Sotiris]

Why not release each and every Reason synth/sampler/effect as a separate VST/DX/AU plugin ?
Throw away the sequencer and mixer, and what do we have? Lots of useful machines!
I want my sequencer of choice, with my software AND hardware synths PLUS Malstrom,Redrum,RV7000 and maybe the vocoder ....
Why should i pay for the other "machines" which i'll probably never use?

[quincy]

Why not release each and every Reason synth/sampler/effect as a separate VST/DX/AU plugin ?
Throw away the sequencer and mixer, and what do we have? Lots of useful machines!
I want my sequencer of choice, with my software AND hardware synths PLUS Malstrom,Redrum,RV7000 and maybe the vocoder ....
Why should i pay for the other "machines" which i'll probably never use?

But then what you won't have is the modular system which is another of reason's big selling points.

I don't know why people don't get this. You can't have VST's part of the modular system in reason, they won't integrate like the in-built stuff. And likewise, you can't have the modular flexibility with standard VST's outside of reason. The closest you'll get is something like EnergyXT, and it isn't the same.

[spaceman]

Why not release each and every Reason synth/sampler/effect as a separate VST/DX/AU plugin ?
Throw away the sequencer and mixer, and what do we have? Lots of useful machines!
I want my sequencer of choice, with my software AND hardware synths PLUS Malstrom,Redrum,RV7000 and maybe the vocoder ....
Why should i pay for the other "machines" which i'll probably never use?

But then what you won't have is the modular system which is another of reason's big selling points.

I don't know why people don't get this. You can't have VST's part of the modular system in reason, they won't integrate like the in-built stuff. And likewise, you can't have the modular flexibility with standard VST's outside of reason. The closest you'll get is something like EnergyXT, and it isn't the same.

they only way VSTs can work in Reason is if Propellerheads set up a system where they check the code of potential plugins against a list of high criteria, tested for stability, etc.. but that will more than likely turn into a rewriting of the whole plug into a new Reason plugin standard (like Muse's Receptor) so that they can be absolutely shure it will run smoothly in Reason.

This, obviously is a major change in business plan and a very costly change for that matter.. just not economical, not for Propellerheads, nore for the VST developer... and as many people here have mentioned before.. use f**king Rewire

It doesn't mean that, because they make music software they have to support every available standard and add any feature available. You'll have one big, ugly dog of a software if they did. If you want VST use bloody Cubase or whatever

for f**k's sake.. ram it into your thick skulls for once and for all.. Reason is not Cubase,etc. just like a sampler is not a granular synth, and a modeled analogue is not a digital bass synth

[nuffink]

minimum system specs

Intel Pentium II/233 MHz or better
64 mb RAM

However, how many people are working on 233-300 mhz computers these days? especially when we have 3000+ mhz rated systems...

i teach reason at the university college of bergen.
so i teach reason to students who will become music teachers.
the idea is that reason is something they can actually use with the stone age computers they are likely to find when they find jobs later.
probably a small market, but an important one

Well, God help us all...

Wanker

Agreed.