KVR Audio

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:11 pm

The only way to decide is to go through them with the demo. The 5 I like might not be to your taste at all.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:35 pm

for me, it started with getting myself a piece of each (one 1x12, one 2x12, a couple of 4x12's) i liked best, but then it kinda grew on me (to the point that i recently sold my Redwirez license because WoS just replaced it for me completely).

EnderWillSaveUs · Post by **EnderWillSaveUs** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:03 pm

Well, I am demoing. The problem is that I'm fairly new to amp/cab sims. Although cabs individually are rather cheap, it can become expensive. I just don't want to squander money if unnecessary. I understand cab choices are individual based, but interested to know whether there is a better sound from recabinet, redwirez, WoS, etc.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:23 pm

i like WoS more because of its possibilities. the sound itself is, to my ears, comparable in all three (i had all of them, but sold redwires - still have recabinet and love it for its simplicity). the thing that always bugged me with redwires was a rather intimidating workflow. WoS, while having a comparable number of options (and even more if you count in poweramp and FX), is miles easier to work with and quickly dialing sound in. even if it offered no improvement over redwirez or recabinet (whether it does is a matter of personal opinion), i would still pick it over redwirez for the workflow.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:24 pm

EnderWillSaveUs wrote:Well, I am demoing. The problem is that I'm fairly new to amp/cab sims. Although cabs individually are rather cheap, it can become expensive. I just don't want to squander money if unnecessary. I understand cab choices are individual based, but interested to know whether there is a better sound from recabinet, redwirez, WoS, etc.

I understand. What I didn't like is the redwirze. People swear by them so I'm different but I did not like them. Recabinet is a great product. Has a certain beefyness to it. Honestly though, I feel like I can get a better sound in the mix with WOS. I'm trying to avoid the "salesman" approach. Like I said a while back I got the 5 pack. I like the cabinets and the mic selections. But it's still in beta so testing is important, make sure there are no issues/etc.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:58 pm

EnderWillSaveUs wrote:Well, I am demoing. The problem is that I'm fairly new to amp/cab sims. Although cabs individually are rather cheap, it can become expensive. I just don't want to squander money if unnecessary. I understand cab choices are individual based, but interested to know whether there is a better sound from recabinet, redwirez, WoS, etc.

What WoS does, that the competition you mentioned does not, is add a competent power amp simulation as part of the software. I think that's why it sounds more natural to my ears as you're not just pasting an impulse after an amp sim, but hopefully the two components are working together. Am I wrong? I know that in a tube power amp the load (speaker) plays an important part of how the guitar amp works as a system. It actually will act as a dynamic filter of sorts, which is where the "warmth" comes from. A transistor power amp does not react to the load at all and thus, no "warmth."

Anyway, I've spent a lot of time futzing with different cab sim/impulse/amp sim/preamp sim/ combos and for my money I still think Amplitube is the best. I thought WoS was as good, but the fact that I'd then have to run different software for my preamp sim and effects... not worth it when Amplitube has the whole package and it's good.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:36 pm

On the question of power amp sims: aren't these already built into the amp models? I'm not sure why I'd want to run an amp sim, into a power amp sim, into a cab sim, when the amp sim already includes a power amp stage.

Now, in terms of Torpedo, one thing I'd like to see is a couple of different room impulse options built in. This way when I move the speaker back off the grill, I should hear a bit of the room (more or less depending on the mic selected). Early reflections can really help add some liveliness and a sense of 3-D space IMO.

The signal cab-processed should also have the option of being delayed slightly when pushed back. Sure, you might run into phase issues with multiple mics, but if you don't like it, you could always shut the slight delay feature off.

These two features, combined with what already happens to the frequency response when moving the mics, would better simulate what you can do recording an actual cabinet in an actual room.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:25 pm

most of free amp sims are preamps. most of commercial sims will have power amps, yes. i get around it by turning down the power amp volume and leave only preamp distortion (and compensate for volume with master output).

agree about the delay, and also phase shift/invert knob would be handy as well!

Tubeman · Post by **Tubeman** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:25 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:On the question of power amp sims: aren't these already built into the amp models? I'm not sure why I'd want to run an amp sim, into a power amp sim, into a cab sim, when the amp sim already includes a power amp stage.

Actually guitarists do this all the time. For example run a small wattage amp into a bigger one. It's just an extra set of tubes and a transformer.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:41 am

I finally took a closer look at the more recent version. And aside from the ASIO load being ULTA HIGH in Cubase 7 (no surprise!), it's one hell of a plugin.

And I'm so out of funds. Because even though I do like the two demo cabinets, I'd like to have more variety.

And a FR:
Mabye add guitar amps in 1 incements, not in two. Of course I can always turn one non-needed cabinet off. But I'd love to have a clean GUI.

And... maybe different rooms? Currently it's a dry room. Though what would happen if the size would be bigger, or the walls wouldn't be treated?

Else, cool tool. Definitely more versatile than old Line6's PODFarm/GearBox. And IMO a ton better sounding than IKM's AT3 cabinets! With stuff like LePou, TSE and Ignite Amps, an absolute killer application.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:56 am

It's come a long way too. In this time there have been several bugfixes.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:08 am

Just a quick demo with RealStrat (Neck PU), RealLPC (mid to bridge PU setting), Pettinhouse DirectBass 2 (Neck/Finger), Ignite Amps Tube Screamer-ish stompbox, Ignite Amps Bass Amp, AT3 with one of the recent freeware amps (modern brit I think), and three instances of Torpedo WoS.

WoS used the 4x12 for guitars, with a D52 and I think the bottle mic - and the bass used the RE20 and another condenser for the room. No post EQ, no compression. EQ was all within WoS.

The drums come from Zero-G's Pure REX (Nu Metal IIRC), squashed with Slate Digital VCC and VBC-Grey (SSL 4k pre and SSL 4k compressor). The whole mix was gain reduced by 3dB with FG-RED (Focusrite RED-3, CLA Drive Setting), and some general fairy dust. Loudness is about K-12.

I know it's boring drop-C riding on all guitars, but heck... it's a quick demo and I got at least "something" done for today.

Studio Compyfox - Enter the Torpedo (Torpedo WoS III Demo)
(ca 2MB, MP3, 256kbit VBR, 48/24, 1:06min)

If you want to see the ASIO usage in C7.06, read the following post:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 08#5537708

EDIT:
I hope the devs read along. This ASIO load is not right, because it's similar in both Cubase 7 and Cubase 6. Read: way too high at low latency. If the devs could take a closer look and try to improve things, that'd be greatly appreciated.

Else it's pretty much unusable for me in realtime, since the fluctuations with only 2 plugins running are already too intense.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:46 am

no problems here, REAPER x64. might be specific to Cubase?

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:27 pm

Could be. I assume it's the ASIO engine yet again.
Also keep in mind, Reaper handles ASIO differently than all other hosts.

Also checked if it has denormal issues, just to be sure. Not the case. So I expect either a bug in the code (it's a beta after all), or Cubase being yet again the culprit.

Filed a ticket.

Tubeman · Post by **Tubeman** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:51 pm

Compyfox wrote:Just a quick demo with RealStrat (Neck PU), RealLPC (mid to bridge PU setting), Pettinhouse DirectBass 2 (Neck/Finger), Ignite Amps Tube Screamer-ish stompbox, Ignite Amps Bass Amp, AT3 with one of the recent freeware amps (modern brit I think), and three instances of Torpedo WoS.

WoS used the 4x12 for guitars, with a D52 and I think the bottle mic - and the bass used the RE20 and another condenser for the room. No post EQ, no compression. EQ was all within WoS.

The drums come from Zero-G's Pure REX (Nu Metal IIRC), squashed with Slate Digital VCC and VBC-Grey (SSL 4k pre and SSL 4k compressor). The whole mix was gain reduced by 3dB with FG-RED (Focusrite RED-3, CLA Drive Setting), and some general fairy dust. Loudness is about K-12.

I know it's boring drop-C riding on all guitars, but heck... it's a quick demo and I got at least "something" done for today.

Studio Compyfox - Enter the Torpedo (Torpedo WoS III Demo)
(ca 2MB, MP3, 256kbit VBR, 48/24, 1:06min)

I think it would sound better if you spread the guitars more as now they are both almost at the middle. The bass needs more juice. Like TSE BOD 2.

The drums sound quite good are they sampled hits or loops?

Two Notes torpedo WOSIII cabinet simulator