Cakewalk Sonar X3

[Gonga]

+1

I think it's OK to post support. But it's even more important to post about troubles.

In either case, it's stupid and immature to complain about, criticize, and put down other users simply because your experience with the software is different.

[lfm]

I will however demo X3 before putting my cash down this time, and if that issue is sorted, I'm all in!... once the upgrade goes on sale that is... I own all the addiotnal plugs already bar Melodyne Ess (which I don't have too much use for myself), so the full orice for the upgrade doesn't really appeal to me.

I've followed most of this thread, and to be honsest, it's mostly just bickering and BS... done with it

Most of us does not explore every corner of a daw. Probably most record audio and midi, put effects on, do automation and tune everything up - and done(well, last part sometimes takes years of redoing things to satisfaction).

So that one user does not experience every problem is understandable. They are free to speak their mind too.

I just upgraded 8.5 to X3 basic, without demo even, since cost was rediculous anyway and it's really stripped to what I need.

X3 has been really nice experience so far. Working full days without disturbance. But there are things for Cake to attend too - and I can sense the energy is there to make this happend.

I don't know if it's with a knife on their throat since Roland got rid of them, and will do their uttermost to fix problems now at Gibsons. For me that is among the most important things - they make an effort. Doing programming for many years I know you make mistakes, everybody does - but what do you do to fix them is vital.

I paused Cake for 3 years since 8.5 upgrade, trying other daws. Now there is great improvement in handling bugtracker reports, well response is often to contact support since problem may be system specific, but still - quite different from earlier years.

I will see what Cake support is like these days - filed my first yesterday.

But it is understandable that people report stuff and feel ignored since it's not fixed, not even in next major payable version. We will see if they get this - how bad that is for business. I paused upgrades for Sonar 4 for 5 years - they missed that money coming in. Apart from that I could not saying so positive things about Cake.

Since Cake has been here in this thread - they might got some help in understanding how it works. How long time users in frustration over being ignored cry out this frustration. Users that really like the software per se - but throw their money elsewhere.

I filed two support tickets with Presonus for Studio one this summer. Still no reply on either. So Cake is not alone ignoring userbase.

[GeorgeZ]

Since Cake has been here in this thread - they might got some help in understanding how it works.

Mate, tell me bout it, I almost fell over backwards when I saw a "[Cakewalk]" post. Hopefully that points to more direct feedback and good things for CW >> users. Quietly optimistic.

I filed two support tickets with Presonus for Studio one this summer. Still no reply on either. So Cake is not alone ignoring userbase.

Totally, there are products / company support MUCH worse than Sonar of course, no doubt, but do you measure your success by the lowest, or the highest denominator?

[deastman]

I recently attended the After Effects World conference in Seattle. We spent a day at Adobe's offices, and I took away a couple of key points which seem relevant here.

1. If you file a bug report and don't get a response, its likely because they've heard about that same bug from multiple other people, and its already on their radar.

2. Development teams have limited resources. They have to prioritize not only what features to add, but what bugs to fix first.

Its easy to think of Adobe and Cakewalk as giant, faceless corporations, but the actual number of developers working on a given application is much smaller than you might expect. These are real people, going to work every day and trying to make the tools we all use the best they can possibly be, given the limited resources at their disposal. Of course none of that matters if you're confronted with a repeatable, work-stopping bug, in which case no one would blame you for moving on. Just remember that ALL software has bugs, and its rare to find a user base for any application which is 100% satisfied.

[chrisby]

Its easy to think of Adobe and Cakewalk as giant, faceless corporations, but the actual number of developers working on a given application is much smaller than you might expect....

Just for a little more perspective, Adobe's revenue last year was about 4.5 Billion, CW's was around 12 million a few years ago when I saw if published if I remember correct....

[trimph1]

Its easy to think of Adobe and Cakewalk as giant, faceless corporations, but the actual number of developers working on a given application is much smaller than you might expect....

Just for a little more perspective, Adobe's revenue last year was about 4.5 Billion, CW's was around 12 million a few years ago when I saw if published if I remember correct....

If that is correct...key phrase.

However; that being said, it does mean that resources are not going to be as much on the ground so one will have to wait a bit longer.

But they will get done.

[Gonga]

And Adobe is getting grilled right now for its notorious dominance in the realm of bugginess

One thing I like about SONAR X3 is the ability to have full functionality in the bottom tier. That's cool. And if I were using a touch system, as I wish I were, SONAR is one of the only games in town.

[J4R1O]

Yes, the CW forum is also full of praise and positive reviews from all type of users (Power users included).

Yeah, praise is the keyword.

[chk071]

Its easy to think of Adobe and Cakewalk as giant, faceless corporations, but the actual number of developers working on a given application is much smaller than you might expect....

Just for a little more perspective, Adobe's revenue last year was about 4.5 Billion, CW's was around 12 million a few years ago when I saw if published if I remember correct....

The term "giant, faceless company" in regard of the audio app business is not really on point anyway, as there is no such thing as a giant company in it. Even Steinberg will be pretty small in comparison to Adobe.

[satYatunes]

Yes, the CW forum is also full of praise and positive reviews from all type of users (Power users included).

Yeah, praise is the keyword.

So what's your story then? How did CW hurt you? Lets hear it.

Well, like it or not, reviews of this version is really good so far. Reviews X1 and X2 was not the same.

[fese]

I heard moving from Cubase to S1 is piece of cake from a workflow perspective. Is it not the case?

Thanks for your answers, looks promising, will demo the demo when there is one available, for the moment I think I stay with C5 and see again next year...

Moving from C to S1 is maybe not a piece of cake, but should be very easy nevertheless, especially as they provide a Cubase-compliant set of shortcuts, very convenient, and S1 in general is quite easy to learn. This is partly because of a good overall design and for some similarities to the Cubase workflow, but also because the lack of features, it is kind of a streamlined version of Cubase. Not for me at the moment, but very promising and I would love to some of the ideas and features in Cubase (yes, the dream of a perfect DAW lives on
Also no in-place switch of plugins, though...

[J4R1O]

Yes, the CW forum is also full of praise and positive reviews from all type of users (Power users included).

Yeah, praise is the keyword.

So what's your story then? How did CW hurt you? Lets hear it.

Well, like it or not, reviews of this version is really good so far. Reviews X1 and X2 was not the same.

Hi,

I purchased Sonar 7 Producer Edition + Dimension Pro (couple of weeks later) back in 2008, just a couple of months before Sonar 8 was released.

Upgraded to Sonar 8 Producer later that year.

Next year Sonar 8.5 was released, but I decided not to upgrade and purchased some hardware instead.

On December 2011 I decided to upgrade to X1 Producer. Also purcahsed some Dimension Pro sample packs, and next year all the ProChannel modules. So that makes my current Sonar version X1d Producer Expanded.

After X2 came out, I decided to wait. I asked (@ Cakewalk forum) is it safe to demo X2 even I was in the middle of big mixing project, and they (X2 users) told me "go ahead, it's safe, separate installation, don't worry", but luckily some guy told me that it's better not to, because you never know if it corrupts the X1 project files and no one wants to f**k up a project because of demoing some new stuff. Also read about the bug problem, so why I fix something that ain't broken.

Also shared my thoughts about Cakewalk's advertising and marketing tactics, third-party plug-ins, LE versions they bundled, etc. and got some fanboys furious. But hey, that's my opinion as a customer. Yeah, I was disappointed to see how Cakewalk was simply f**kin' up their flagship DAW. I just don't want to pay to get some bundled LE plug-ins with my DAW, stable core would be enough. But as long as they keep on including more and more some third-party plug-ins with their DAW bundle, I can't take 'em seriously.

So, now I'm an ex-Cakewalk customer who's still using their old DAW version almost every day. I know there will be that day when I have to buy a new DAW, but one thing is sure: it will not be Cakewalk/Sonar/Gibson/Tascam releated.

[satYatunes]

@fese; No problem man. Cubase is a fine DAW so stick with it as long as possible. I heard that S1 v3 is in making, hopefully it will have the features that you are looking for. Demo X3 when it's out and decide accordingly. Btw, let me tell you beforehand. Sonar is highly dependent on systems. On some systems it runs without a hitch on some it doesn't. Give the demo a good whirl.

@J4R1O: Pretty sad man. CW should award their loyal customers once in a while. No wonder they are not doing so well. I agree with your point on extra plugins and all. X1D is solid, X2 should have been X1E.
If you ever want to upgrade then check out studio version first. You can still use your X1D pro-channel modules in it but you will have to keep X1D installed. I asked a question in CW forum as to which files I can copy to new version to keep my PC modules but haven't got an answer. $199 upgrade price is very high. I can get second hand S1 in MP even less than that. OTOH studio at $99 is reasonable for the simple reason that you will also get Melodyne Essential with it. Don't know how much it's going to be used but still. Not sure how good BlueTubes FX are included in studio version. If you don't care about Melodyne and Pro-channel (they are really good btw) and have enough FX already then go for Basic version. You will get all the core functions plus ARA integration. So in future if you buy Melodyne then it will work in Basic version as well.

[tom_autobot]

I've got cakewalk doing a Sonar X3 webinar tomorrow, so if any of you have points you'd like answering still, please tune in.

7pm (UK) - http://www.scan.co.uk/shops/proaudio/webcast

I should have the Jimmy the demonstrator and one of the dev's both answering questions.

[J4R1O]

If you ever want to upgrade then check out studio version first. You can still use your X1D pro-channel modules in it but you will have to keep X1D installed. I asked a question in CW forum as to which files I can copy to new version to keep my PC modules but haven't got an answer. $199 upgrade price is very high. I can get second hand S1 in MP even less than that. OTOH studio at $99 is reasonable for the simple reason that you will also get Melodyne Essential with it. Don't know how much it's going to be used but still. Not sure how good BlueTubes FX are included in studio version. If you don't care about Melodyne and Pro-channel (they are really good btw) and have enough FX already then go for Basic version. You will get all the core functions plus ARA integration. So in future if you buy Melodyne then it will work in Basic version as well.

I'm sure that Melodyne is great, but I've managed to get some pretty decent results with V-Vocal. I guess that if I happen to get an urge to buy it (that might happen ) I rather buy it straight from Celemony (or AudioDeluxe) than bundeled with X3 Producer.

I also have Superior Drummer and lots of SDX and EZX packs so I don't need (or want) more virtual drummer software on my computer. What else...? Well... Satin, ReelBus, a pretty nice collection of Waves stuff, everything from Valhalla, Ozone 5, T-Racks Grand, AmpliTube 3... so, that's why I'm not not very excited about X3 Producers bundeled plug-ins.

I hope they get their DAW stable and also re-think their product bundles and marketing.