The Monkey Bricked My PODxt!!

[CapnLockheed]

I'm VERY upset. I've been using Line 6 products for many years and I've never felt more screwed over.
I'm just about done with this company. I currently have a PODxt which I've used on many studio sessions.
Often, before a session, I will fire up Line6 Edit and create new patches specific to the upcoming session.
Like any good loyal Line6 user I also fire up the Monkey and FOLLOW LINE6'S UPDATE INSTRUCTIONS
TO THE LETTER. I am NOT a NOOB. I'm a professional electronics technician and audio engineer. I've
run firmware updates on countless hundreds of rack effects and synthesizers. I've never lost one. Till now.
The !@#$% Monkey said I needed to update it. I was at v. 1.63 so I updated to 1.65. No problem. It then
told me I needed to update the Line 6 drivers from 4.2.6.9 to 4.2.7.1. Again, no problem. BUT then I tried
to fire up Line 6 Edit......PROBLEM. I get an error message saying the firmware code is invalid. Sooooo
I open up the !@#$% Monkey and yes, indeed there is a yellow triangle next to the firmware update.
Soooo I update the firmware. That went smoothly....or so it seemed. It claimed the update was successful
and prompted me to shut down and restart my POD. BUT when I did so I got the dreaded:

"Invalid Code Error 1"

So it looks like I've got a bricked POD. I tried all the recommended fixes. I booted up pressing Enter/Save
and also tried booting while holding the 1st left hand soft key....no joy. I then tried flashing the firmware.
Again the !@#$% Monkey proclaimed the operation a success but AGAIN the unit is booting to the
invalid code message.

Sooooo I finally broke down and did the unthinkable.....I called tech support. Being a tech myself, I
RARELY need to do so but the few times I have in the past I've always been pleased and impressed
with the experience. UNTIL YESTERDAY. I was told, in no uncertain that this was ENTIRELY my fault
and that my unit broke because it was old and that I should have known better than to try to update
it.

EXCUSE ME?????????????????????

This is MY fault because I did what LINE6's software prompted me to do?? If there is a danger in
doing so why is there NO warning?? I understand that a company cannot support products
indefinitely. BUT this company's SOFTWARE BROKE MY HARDWARE. Do I get even so much
much as an apology. NO. Worse still, I get a finger of blame pointed at me!! I feel like a raped
ape er, excuse me, MONKEY!!

Now, in Line6's defense, their rep did say I could send it in to be repaired....which, of course,
after S&H will likely cost more than simply buying a used PODxt. And, of course, I could also
simply buy a NEW Line6 product either way....LINE6 WINS I LOSE. What a BRILLIANT marketing
strategy!!!! Destroy customers old products by prompting them to install "updates" and, thereby
force them to pay for bench time or new products.

WAY TO GO LINE6!!

[rockstar_not]

I would try a different customer service rep.

When I was shopping for an audio interface and was considering Line6's 2 channel USB unit at the time - I got a VERY dumb response from a Line6 CS rep on the mic modeling that was possible on the input signal. I couldn't get him/her to answer whether or not the modeling could be bypassed and what the basic S/N ratio was - at least that's what I think my basic question was.

On another e-mail, I ended up being connected with someone that seemed like they knew what they were talking about.

In the end, I bought a PreSonus Firebox.

Good luck - I hope you get a better answer the next time around.

[lfm]

Firmware updaters that does not have built in hardware check - that is really poor design, nothing else.

I've seen Arturia stuff - everything says successful update - and no check of anything. It did not harm anything in my case - but you should not need to be a technician to do these things.

And then on top of that doing the blamegame - hmmmm...

So now we know - stay away from Line6 and Arturia.

[CapnLockheed]

I would try a different customer service rep.

Yeah, I've done that before with other companies and gotten the results I was looking for. I posted this on their forums as well....waiting to see what if any
response I get there.

but you should not need to be a technician to do these things.

No you shouldn't....but in fact I am and STILL:

on top of that doing the blamegame - hmmmm...

That's really the worst part of the whole thing for me. It would
cost them next to nothing to make this right. And it would be a
good investment for them....I have a VERY big mouth!!

[Shy]

I'm wondering in what words exactly that guy told you that you should have known better and not updated it because it's old. Personally I'd call them again, record the conversation (and first notify the guy that I'm recording the conversation). I'd make the recording available online if I got such a ridiculous answer.

[martygras]

Legally their software told you to update. The onus is on them legally IMO.
Should be fixed by Line 6 at "NO" cost to you. IMO.

[CapnLockheed]

I'm wondering in what words exactly

Just like I said. I explained my background and the rep's reply was that someone with my experience should know better.

Legally their software told you to update. The onus is on them legally IMO.
Should be fixed by Line 6 at "NO" cost to you. IMO.

I couldn't agree more. Legality notwithstanding, it would be the moral and ethical thing to do......but I'm not holding my breath.

[CapnLockheed]

Well, I got a response from Line 6 Customer Support. They basically told me to go piss up a rope. I will NEVER buy another Line 6 product. And I will tell anyone who will listen to avoid them as well.

Hello, Mr. Chabot. I'm sorry to see your PODxt experience this problem. I asked Hugo about your phone conversation, and I believe you may have misunderstood what he was telling you. I do not believe that what he was saying was to place blame on you.

He confirmed that you asked what may have caused the failure and was told that as this was a used PODxt, there may have been a component that was old or failing and updating may have caused this failure to permeate. He also mentioned that the issue can be resolved with a repair. There are two routes to go when you need a repair.

If you'd like, you can utilize one of the many authorized service centers we have across the country for the repair of your Line 6 gear. They can be found at http://line6.com/service_centers/.

You can also have the unit repaired by Line 6 directly. We ask that you read our Obtaining an RMA FAQ at http://line6.com/service/ before proceeding. If you still wish to request an RMA for a repair at our service facility, please update your shipping address and reply to this ticket.

If the problem turns out to be a secure memory chip failure, there is data on it that ties it to the unit. A new one would have to be programmed to match the old one. WE do that automatically if repaired here. If you have a service center repair it, we can send them the programmed chip. In any event, the unit needs to be physically reviewed before the root cause of the failure is verified.

We want you to be able to enjoy your PODxt. No one forsees a problem like this, but if/when it happens, we do our best to help.



Best Regards,

Tony Reese
Line 6 Customer Support Manager

To which I replied:

Thank you for the reply. But, quite frankly I do not find your response to be satisfactory in any way. YOUR software caused my perfectly functioning unit to fail. If this, as Hugo claimed, is something I should not have done WHY then is there NO warning that this is a likely outcome???? YOU destroyed my product YOU should fix it...NO CHARGE.
Of course, I realize from your tone and attitude that you have no intention of doing the right thing. So that being the case can you, at the VERY LEAST, tell me what you're going to stick me for on the repair? Do you have a flat bench rate or are you going to force me to ship it to you in order to get an estimate? If it's going to cost me less to sell this unit for parts and buy another used one I'd like to know. Thank you so very much.

[martygras]

Capn': have you posted this on the Line 6 forums? It might prevent others from the same fate.

Maybe we should get some uncooperative tech's names listed here:

"Hugo" sounds like a good list topper right now.

To others here:
I've learned over the years that you should ask for the reps name right up front, the tone changes a bit. Sometimes I've gotten a complete turnaround. (Alesis) If that doesn't work then ask for their supervisor.

If you can state your point calmly and clearly then you stand a good chance of getting some action if they are actually capable of being helpful.

Now, for the most part I have received good support from Alesis, Line 6, and fair, but slow responses from Roland and Akai. So let's not just post anyone's name because you didn't get your way. Remember, sometimes there really is nothing that can be done.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Cristofe mate, Can you get by without your now useless box? If you can not then I have an X3 that could be sent your way for however much it costs to post to you.

That is one big shit sandwich and that monkey ought to be up on charges of statutory ape!

Dean

[Hink]

Cristofe mate, Can you get by without your now useless box? If you can not then I have an X3 that could be sent your way for however much it costs to post to you.

That is one big shit sandwich and that monkey ought to be up on charges of statutory ape!

Dean

he's closer to me Dean and I have an xt live I could let go of, the wah pedal doesn't completely zero but besides that it's never left the house and is great shape

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Cristofe mate, Can you get by without your now useless box? If you can not then I have an X3 that could be sent your way for however much it costs to post to you.

That is one big shit sandwich and that monkey ought to be up on charges of statutory ape!

Dean

he's closer to me Dean and I have an xt live I could let go of, the wah pedal doesn't completely zero but besides that it's never left the house and is great shape

Awesome John, Us brother's gotta look out for one another in good and bad times

Dean

[CapnLockheed]

WOW!! I don't know what to say my brothers!! Thank you both so very much for the kind offers Dean & Hink!! Fortunately I have some good news to report.
After the rather abysmal first response I opened a support ticket and got into it with 'ol line6tony. The issue is now resolved. Here's the dialog that ensued:

Line6:

Hello, Mr. Chabot. I'm sorry to see your PODxt experience this problem. I asked Hugo about your phone conversation, and I believe you may have misunderstood what he was telling you. I do not believe that what he was saying was to place blame on you.

He confirmed that you asked what may have caused the failure and was told that as this was a used PODxt, there may have been a component that was old or failing and updating may have caused this failure to permeate. He also mentioned that the issue can be resolved with a repair. There are two routes to go when you need a repair.

If you'd like, you can utilize one of the many authorized service centers we have across the country for the repair of your Line 6 gear. They can be found at http://line6.com/service_centers/.

You can also have the unit repaired by Line 6 directly. We ask that you read our Obtaining an RMA FAQ at http://line6.com/service/ before proceeding. If you still wish to request an RMA for a repair at our service facility, please update your shipping address and reply to this ticket.

If the problem turns out to be a secure memory chip failure, there is data on it that ties it to the unit. A new one would have to be programmed to match the old one. WE do that automatically if repaired here. If you have a service center repair it, we can send them the programmed chip. In any event, the unit needs to be physically reviewed before the root cause of the failure is verified.

We want you to be able to enjoy your PODxt. No one forsees a problem like this, but if/when it happens, we do our best to help.



Best Regards,

Tony Reese
Line 6 Customer Support Manager

Me:

Thank you for the reply. But, quite frankly I do not find your response to be satisfactory in any way. YOUR software caused my perfectly functioning unit to fail. If this, as Hugo claimed, is something I should not have done WHY then is there NO warning that this is a likely outcome???? YOU destroyed my product YOU should fix it...NO CHARGE.
Of course, I realize from your tone and attitude that you have no intention of doing the right thing. So that being the case can you, at the VERY LEAST, tell me what you're going to stick me for on the repair? Do you have a flat bench rate or are you going to force me to ship it to you in order to get an estimate? If it's going to cost me less to sell this unit for parts and buy another used one I'd like to know. Thank you so very much.

Line6:

I'm sorry that you assume that we're trying to "stick" you and aren't trying to help you. My intention was to make sure you knew what your repair options were. I will help you get it fixed, but I do not believe that Hugo said that you shouldn't have attempted the update, or blamed you in any way. In fact, we advise that customers keep their units updated.

I had one of our techs review your ticket and he feels that the update itself didn't break it, but instead suspects cold solder on the memory chip. We'd like to try to fix it at no cost to you other than shipping it here. Please update your address, and I will set up an RMA, along with return instructions. We will pay to return the unit to you.

Line6Tony

Me:

Ok, thank you Tony. That is most satisfactory. I do wish to address this statement tho: "he feels that the update itself didn't break it, but instead suspects cold solder on the memory chip."

I can see a cold joint causing a failure of this type IF I had simply turned it on one day and got this error. Just moving the unit around could cause a cold joint to fail and produce this error. BUT...the unit was not being moved. It was in a stationary position and was working fine UNTIL the software update. I fail to see how a software update could suddenly cause a cold solder joint to fail. It simply makes no sense. In any case, many thanks for working with me on this issue. As per your instructions, I will update my address and await the RMA.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

WOW!! I don't know what to say my brothers!! Thank you both so very much for the kind offers Dean & Hink!! Fortunately I have some good news to report.
After the rather abysmal first response I opened a support ticket and got into it with 'ol line6tony. The issue is now resolved.

For good friends/dudes (I can not speak for John/on his behalf, However I'm pretty certain he would say something similar) for Me, If I can help them out when they probably really need it then I will try to. I do not use the X3 very often so would not miss it where as if you are using something almost identical all the time then it makes perfect sense IMveryhumbleHO to rehouse instead of cling on to something. Obviously within reason/limitations

Anyway as you gave them a piece of your mind and rightly so in such circumstances and they've agreed to repair your XT that doesn't matter now. Really glad they decided to do that and I agree fully that a dry solder could not of caused the problem, Well not 100% as if there was one slowing waiting to go and it by massive chance happened to go as the updating was happening (Which I doubt by 99.9%). I think they gave the most likely answer away in the reply by saying it was one of the chips (As in it has happened to others quite often).
You'll have to let us know how quickly it goes

All the best Cristofe mate

Dean

[rockstar_not]

That is a happy read here at the grace being shown by the KVR forumite guitar dudes of high honor, and for the Line6 folks stepping up to the plate. This read is pairing nicely with the Shock Top Raspberry Wheat I'm enjoying before I head off to bed.

Keep us posted.