Accoustic Treatment Question

[darkarchitech]

Well first of all i just want to make sure this is the best place to talk about acoustic treatment or if there is a dedicated forum already.(I couldn't find one)

I have tons of questions and pictures of my studio, and i also already have a kit from Prime Acoustics called "London 12" set-up in my studio (to my best ability hahaha).

But yea just want to make sure i am in the right forum before i go and write a 5 page essay and upload a bunch of stuff. I have been working on this stuff for a long time and still not getting the results i need, so i am seeking help.

So yea before i go on please let me know if this is the correct forum, and ill delete and re-create the topic once i know.


Thanks,
Mike

[BertKoor]

You can try, but I doubt you'll get much sensible response. This is an area that is very hard to diagnose and help with without actually being there.

The only other forum I can think of better suited for this type of question is the Hardware section of KVR, or move over to our respected (cough!) colleagues of GearSlutz.

[darkarchitech]

You can try, but I doubt you'll get much sensible response. This is an area that is very hard to diagnose and help with without actually being there.

The only other forum I can think of better suited for this type of question is the Hardware section of KVR, or move over to our respected (cough!) colleagues of GearSlutz.

Thank you so much for the info its appreciated! I will be posting in the hardware forum like u suggested.

[The Drop]

Well first of all i just want to make sure this is the best place to talk about acoustic treatment or if there is a dedicated forum already.(I couldn't find one)

I have tons of questions and pictures of my studio, and i also already have a kit from Prime Acoustics called "London 12" set-up in my studio (to my best ability hahaha).

But yea just want to make sure i am in the right forum before i go and write a 5 page essay and upload a bunch of stuff. I have been working on this stuff for a long time and still not getting the results i need, so i am seeking help.

So yea before i go on please let me know if this is the correct forum, and ill delete and re-create the topic once i know.


Thanks,
Mike

Not sure if whether I could be of much help but am always interested in acoustic treatment issues.

[Hink]

This was on FB and I bookmarked the page but haven't checked it out much

http://www.musictech.net/2013/06/diy-st ... -tutorial/

[darkarchitech]

Well first of all i just want to make sure this is the best place to talk about acoustic treatment or if there is a dedicated forum already.(I couldn't find one)

I have tons of questions and pictures of my studio, and i also already have a kit from Prime Acoustics called "London 12" set-up in my studio (to my best ability hahaha).

But yea just want to make sure i am in the right forum before i go and write a 5 page essay and upload a bunch of stuff. I have been working on this stuff for a long time and still not getting the results i need, so i am seeking help.

So yea before i go on please let me know if this is the correct forum, and ill delete and re-create the topic once i know.


Thanks,
Mike

Not sure if whether I could be of much help but am always interested in acoustic treatment issues.

Hey if look at the link the member posted above, that first image of the studio layout with acoustic treatment is pretty much exactly how i did my studio. But i dont have a window on the right wall, but i have a door on the back right wall. The dimensions of my room are 12ft by 11ft-6in and 7ft-6in high, so the shape is not the exact same as the one in the diagram.

But the issues i am having is my mixes are still translating to headphones poorly (even if the track is mastered.) It normally sounds great on anything else like stereos, car systems, my monitors, etc, but sounds terrible on headphones always. (i have tested multiple pairs of headphones and my 2 pairs of HD-25's, and they all sound the same.)

After i got my 2 latest tracks mastered i could really hear the flaws, i spoke to a few friends online and showed them images of my studio. They suggested getting bigger and thicker bass traps than the ones i have, and put them from floor to ceiling and in all 4 corners. Than i could possibly treat my ceiling as well with some bass trap like clouds that hang from the ceiling.

I was wondering what other opinions people had on this and if they could suggest any other ideas. Like i said if u go to the post above with the link, the first diagram of the rooms acoustic treatment is the same way mine is set up.

I will be making a whole thread of this soon, but would like to hear ur ideas "The Drop" and anyone else.


Thanks,
Mike

[Compyfox]

I think a very, very good starting point for you is going over to GIK Acoustics, and dig through the articles.

http://gikacoustics.com/articles/


Glenn Kuras is also a member of GearSlutz and a very top bloke. He's active in the acoustics section over there and doesn't mind helping out DIY'ers, if they are willing to do their research first. His team is also trying to be very, very helpful.

His page, and ton of the DIY ideas on GS inspired me to overhaul my studio. And while my monitor room is less than optimal still (it's half a living room), my rec room is pretty much dead after covering the ceiling, three corners, having some diffusors (by HOFA Acoustics) and I also built my own 14cm thick (frame size is 20cm), 2m large GOBO with Rockwool that (according to specs) eats down to 100Hz. I also built my own mic shields (they were expensive back then!).


So yeah.

Dig through the GIK page, then (if you have further DIY question) go over to GearSlutz and dig through the archives (Glenn Kuras, Ethan Winer/RealTraps, etc). Then start to optimize things.



What you will constanltly incounter however:
Bass Traps: 4-8inch thick
Wall Absorbers: 4inch thick

Depending on the flow resistance of the material (in kPa), you can "cheat" a little in terms of size.

Here's one example with 7kPa (Rockwool):
14cm GOBO, 10cm Wall Absorber, 4cm Wall Absorber - 7kPa

And here's one example with 10kPa (Knauf Insulation, Acoustic Mineral Wool)
14cm GOBO, 10cm Wall Absorber, 4cm Wall Absorber - 10kPa

The higher the line is towards 1 as coefficient, then it's better absorbing. If the line is solid, these values are somewhat definite. Dotted means "theoretical".


You'll see extreme differences with different thick material and airgaps.

As can be seen here (roughly 8 inches):
Comparision with 7kPa, 10kPa and 16kPa, 20cm thickness

And the same with 5cm thickness (2inch):
Comparision with 7kPa, 10kPa and 16kPa, 5cm thickness

Keep in mind, some space between a solid backing and the absorptive material, does add to the coefficient as well. Which is the very reason why people tell you "mount in corners" or "space from walls".


Most of the times, users will recommend you material like "Owens Corning" (US only, which comes close to Knauf Insulation, actually a tad stronger). GIK Acoustic is known to get their material from Knauf as well, so the kPa can vary between 10kPa and 14kPa. Just take a look at their measurements (thickness) of the absorbers.

2inch = 5,08cm (plus frame)
4inch = 10,16cm (plus frame)
6inch = 15,24cm (plus frame)
8inch = 20,32cm (plus frame)

The GIK Acoustic Traps 242 use 2inch material (frame is 3,5inch thick frame), the 244's use 4inch material (5,5inch thick frame). Enough space for wall mounts and adding a "scatter plate" (a slotted plate), which can work both as bass trap and diffusor.




You see - it's not that simple, it's just a lot(!) of testing and doing research how flow resistant your material is.

That, some tricks like the "Mirror Trick" placement, some thinking about it, and measuring the room with something like "Room EQ Wizard".



Just... don't overdo it. A dead room (plastered with absorbers) irritates your ears and you don't feel comfortable working in that room anymore.

Hope that helps as starting point.




DISCLAIMER:
I AM NO ACOUSTICS EXPERT! Questions are better directed to people like the GIK Acoustic's emplyees.

[darkarchitech]

I think a very, very good starting point for you is going over to GIK Acoustics, and dig through the articles.

http://gikacoustics.com/articles/


Glenn Kuras is also a member of GearSlutz and a very top bloke. He's active in the acoustics section over there and doesn't mind helping out DIY'ers, if they are willing to do their research first. His team is also trying to be very, very helpful.

His page, and ton of the DIY ideas on GS inspired me to overhaul my studio. And while my monitor room is less than optimal still (it's half a living room), my rec room is pretty much dead after covering the ceiling, three corners, having some diffusors (by HOFA Acoustics) and I also built my own 14cm thick (frame size is 20cm), 2m large GOBO with Rockwool that (according to specs) eats down to 100Hz. I also built my own mic shields (they were expensive back then!).


So yeah.

Dig through the GIK page, then (if you have further DIY question) go over to GearSlutz and dig through the archives (Glenn Kuras, Ethan Winer/RealTraps, etc). Then start to optimize things.



What you will constanltly incounter however:
Bass Traps: 4-8inch thick
Wall Absorbers: 4inch thick

Depending on the flow resistance of the material (in kPa), you can "cheat" a little in terms of size.

Here's one example with 7kPa (Rockwool):
14cm GOBO, 10cm Wall Absorber, 4cm Wall Absorber - 7kPa

And here's one example with 10kPa (Knauf Insulation, Acoustic Mineral Wool)
14cm GOBO, 10cm Wall Absorber, 4cm Wall Absorber - 10kPa

The higher the line is towards 1 as coefficient, then it's better absorbing. If the line is solid, these values are somewhat definite. Dotted means "theoretical".


You'll see extreme differences with different thick material and airgaps.

As can be seen here (roughly 8 inches):
Comparision with 7kPa, 10kPa and 16kPa, 20cm thickness

And the same with 5cm thickness (2inch):
Comparision with 7kPa, 10kPa and 16kPa, 5cm thickness

Keep in mind, some space between a solid backing and the absorptive material, does add to the coefficient as well. Which is the very reason why people tell you "mount in corners" or "space from walls".


Most of the times, users will recommend you material like "Owens Corning" (US only, which comes close to Knauf Insulation, actually a tad stronger). GIK Acoustic is known to get their material from Knauf as well, so the kPa can vary between 10kPa and 14kPa. Just take a look at their measurements (thickness) of the absorbers.

2inch = 5,08cm (plus frame)
4inch = 10,16cm (plus frame)
6inch = 15,24cm (plus frame)
8inch = 20,32cm (plus frame)

The GIK Acoustic Traps 242 use 2inch material (frame is 3,5inch thick frame), the 244's use 4inch material (5,5inch thick frame). Enough space for wall mounts and adding a "scatter plate" (a slotted plate), which can work both as bass trap and diffusor.




You see - it's not that simple, it's just a lot(!) of testing and doing research how flow resistant your material is.

That, some tricks like the "Mirror Trick" placement, some thinking about it, and measuring the room with something like "Room EQ Wizard".



Just... don't overdo it. A dead room (plastered with absorbers) irritates your ears and you don't feel comfortable working in that room anymore.

Hope that helps as starting point.




DISCLAIMER:
I AM NO ACOUSTICS EXPERT! Questions are better directed to people like the GIK Acoustic's emplyees.

Thanks for all the detailed info and advice, i am currently speaking with a Rep at GiK Acoustics and getting lots of help from him. I am just waiting on a sketch of my room, then we are going go from there.

Thanks everyone for all the help, its appreciated!

[Hink]

might I impose on you and ask you a little favor? Could you start a thread in the DIY forum here at KvR (or if you like we can move this to the DIY forum )with some pics as you go along and share some of what you learned? The question comes up often enough if it generates enough interest I might make it a sticky