Should I spend my $$ On Sonar X3 Or Logic X

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

Given all the stability problems and uncertain future of X3, I would think going Logic would be a no brainer. I'd much prefer S1 to both however.

Where are you getting your information from? SONAR X3 is quite stable and users who are ACTUALLY using it are loving it. Likewise, the future of SONAR is very bright in general. We have already done two updates with more coming soon. If you are going to give an opinion on SONAR X3, maybe you should base it on reality and not your own baseless opinions.

I base my information on the very long currently 54 page thread linked below where many, many users are saying what a POS buggy program it is. So it's not really my first-hand opinion, but the opinion of dozens of others in that thread. Furthermore, many people aren't too excited about the future of the product given its recent purchase by a company that is notorious for destroying companies it has acquired. I am sure there are happy Cakewalk users out there, but the fact remains it does not have a very good reputation by some. Sorry it happens to be a company you work for.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=391841

I see. So you're basing your SONAR X3 opinion on a handful of opinions from people who HAVEN'T used SONAR X3. That seems well reasoned. I am familiar with that thread and it seems like 50% of those posts are coming from the same few folks who haven't used SONAR X3. Let's just say it is dozens...do you know how many users we have? Of course people who may be experiencing problems will be the most vocal, but doesn't make it the majority. We have a great customer service team and are always willing to help out users if they contact us through official means.

You also say "many people aren't excited about the future of the product". I assume you conducted a scientific poll on this and came to that conclusion? I won't even bother continuing this conversation with you as you seem to have a well reasoned and well informed opinion. What do I know anyway about the general happiness level of our customers or the future of the company. I only work at Cakewalk.

Have a great day!

EDIT: Been checking the 54 page thread and it seems the people who are actually using SONAR X3 are praising it. Would you say that holds at least as much credibility as those who aren't?

[superscan]

If I had to do it all over again...(and admittedly I know nothing of Sonar)

I'd go the Logic route and get a MacProVideo subscription to go deep in the product. Maybe I would splurge and get the LoopMasters Logic Channel Strips to round it out. No additional plugs.

I have a boatload of plugs, and would for the sake of making music do the above without question. Aside from the investment in the Mac (which arguably should be used for other things), $200 bucks + $50 in the extras (20/m for MPV) gets you so much further than you could expect. There is so much value in that $200 investment, that I couldn't give it justice. The 36GB of content should prove that for you. Here's a link to the details: http://www.apple.com/logic-pro/in-depth/

I agree with the earlier poster about going to the Apple Store (or reseller if you don't have one near you) and checking it out. I knew within 15 minutes it was a winner for me.

Regardless of your decision, investment in knowledge / training is a must. Get strong in your DAW!

Best of luck in your journey!

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[Tronam]

This thread is going downhill in a hurry. We really shouldn't be drawing conclusions about Sonar X3 based on sporadic hearsay and should all know by now that every new DAW release brings with it at least some negativity by a vocal minority. I'm not a Sonar user, but I think the general (albeit anecdotal) vibe has been mainly positive. If Cakewalk went dual-platform, I'd definitely put it through its paces and give it a fair shake.

[trimph1]

I agree. I do think that X3 will work fine here. In fact I'ma buying it.

[goldenanalog]

...do you know how many users we have?

Please stick around here and converse with us@KVR if you would, Arossa-I just bought the X3 update for Producer myself....

and the answer to your own question is....?

[Jace-BeOS]

If Sonar makes you uncomfortable because of crash paranoia, then that's a worthwhile issue to address. That's not the reason i have issues with Sonar, though it has certainly done its share of crashing for me. My issues, ranted about in the aforementioned 50+ page thread, have more to do with the overall behavior of the product. i don't have X3, and this Cakewalk guy is telling me all my complaints were addressed in the X-series, so WTF do i know. Demo it. If you want a random testimonial for Mac+Logic, then consider me a happy Mac+Logic user. i HATE Windows after using it for decades, so part of my reason is that i wanted to get the hell away from that disaster of a platform. i am loving using Macs. My only complaint there is that cross-platform software often is poorly supported and more buggy on Macs (Cubase 4.5 was, dunno about today's version, and ALL cross-platform 3D modeling/rendering software SUCKS on Mac because the developers don't bother to put effort into it, though they will sell it to you).

[yessongs]

I will be getting X3 as well and the program extras they give are not just some lite versions this time around the full version of Addictive Drums is included as is a whole suite of Nomad Factory plugins.

I doubt any other DAW has ever done such a thing for its users. The upgrade to x3 producer for me is $150 which is what Addictive drums costs. Plus the AAS le versions of lounge lizard and strum are all I need for those kinds of sounds I would not ever use the full versions since I am not a guy who plays EP and accoustic guitar sounds a lot since I am a guitarist who can play my own guitar parts and I really prefer other keys to EP sounds unless I am covering Pink Floyd's Sheep and need to have a rhodes sound for that.

Melodyne and ARA is worth the upgrade price all by itself they did not need to sweeten the pot any more than they did. The early feedback is that Sonar is highly stable now and though like other DAWS it will have a bug or 2 I can honestly say it is stable when I do the right thing and it will be even more so after I clean off all the junk and tune my computer up to be just a DAW instead of serving as my business and Internet surfing computer as I use to do because I once had multiple computers.

If I were using other DAWS I would be very scared about this situation because when Sonar works right it is the best DAW on the planet and it certainly appears to be a major step forward with x3. I expect these guys to take the lead and not look back.

As far as logic goes it has a lot of splaining to do as to why it no longer supports 32 bit plug ins so I will just leave that at that. It only works on MAC so your computer choices are limited to expensive apples. Lots of software is PC only including many of the cool freeware synths and FX. If your loaded with $$$ go mac and buy all the plug ins you need to use from expensive options if your not made of $$$ then PC is your only realistic option. Reaper is a decent program I use to play around with that does a few things differently but it will also crash I notice when certain situations exist.

I tend to think that guys who have a problem with Sonar are newbies who won't invest the time or money into learning the program enough to figure it out so they discover what they are doing wrong and or how they are creating problems by their lack of proper use and methodology.

The forum at Cakewalk is without a doubt a heck of a lot more responsive and the expert advice I get is far more intelligent and detailed than I get at the reaper forums though they have improved some. Example I wanted a way to use Sonar live for reproducing tones I use in amp sims and the cakewalk people not only properly figure out a way to do it but they uploaded a project file that served as an example. Now I can load up amp sims on multiple tracks and use a strategy to jump from marker to marker in order to seamlessly change tones with midi CC using act.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/can-x3-do-this-m2903465.aspx

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[chk071]

z3ta crash

Hm, it crashed on me too when using zeta 2... seems to be a common problem. Can't really tell what i did when it crashed though, seemed pretty random.

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

...do you know how many users we have?

Please stick around here and converse with us@KVR if you would, Arossa-I just bought the X3 update for Producer myself....

and the answer to your own question is....?

HAHA! We don't reveal those numbers for competitive reasons (hope you understand). We've been watching these threads and if there are questions, we'll be happy to chime in. I want to be as respectful to the KVR community and let members discuss. But we definitely will be keeping tabs and when appropriate will help answer any questions.

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

I just wanted to quickly add that Andrew's (Arossa) presence IS appreciated and he in particular is doing an excellent job, and seems to be really going out of his way to pm and help people (me included). So even though what I said above about the support was my experience and has been over different cakewalk products over time that I have owned, I am absolutely happy to be proven wrong and hope things are changing for the better. For me its too late as nothing I've ever reported has been fixed, (sfz multicore bug, automation flag in sonitus fx, pdc reporting wrong value in sonitus phase, z3ta crash and weird happenings in logic mac, many sonar 8 bugs when I was an avid user, a couple of x2 ones), but that doesn't mean that things aren't going to be different from now on for those faithful to cakewalk and those new to it, and I hope that's what happens . Andrews support is definitely a start in the right direction. Cheers.

Thanks for keeping an open mind. Appreciate it.

[J4R1O]

This is interesting (Craig Anderton @ Cakewalk forum):

Well I'm not a programmer, so I may be totally off base here, but it seems that Cakewalk did a whole lot of work under the hood in going from X2 to X3. If they put the same amount of work into X2a, then I assume they'd have to charge for an X2b update and at that point, it would probably make more sense to update to X3.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/WHAT-ABOUT-X3 ... 10359.aspx

So, all those Cakewalk customers who purchased X2 and had issues with it, never got their paid DAW fixed. Instead they would probably make more sense to update to X3. This is really something... and one of those reasons I'm an ex-Cakewalk customer - even I never upgraded from X1 to X2.

If you think this is an ok way to do business, well, think again.

[whyterabbyt]

This is interesting (Craig Anderton @ Cakewalk forum):

Well I'm not a programmer, so I may be totally off base here, but it seems that Cakewalk did a whole lot of work under the hood in going from X2 to X3. If they put the same amount of work into X2a, then I assume they'd have to charge for an X2b update and at that point, it would probably make more sense to update to X3.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/WHAT-ABOUT-X3 ... 10359.aspx

So, all those Cakewalk customers who purchased X2 and had issues with it, never got their paid DAW fixed. Instead they would probably make more sense to update to X3. This is really something... and one of those reasons I'm an ex-Cakewalk customer - even I never upgraded from X1 to X2.

If you think this is an ok way to do business, well, think again.

I think this is someone admitting he's making a series of assumptions about something he wasnt involved in, as a possible explanation of a hypothetical situation, and you trying to draw a completely unrelated conclusion from that. So, no, no need for anyone to think again except yourself.

[J4R1O]

I think this is someone admitting he's making a series of assumptions about something he wasnt involved in, as a possible explanation of a hypothetical situation, and you trying to draw a completely unrelated conclusion from that. So, no, no need for anyone to think again except yourself.

Thank you for your reply!