KVR Audio

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:12 pm

So basically Studio One comes with a 32bit mixer engine for the cheaper versions and Professional has 64 bit.

IMO this means less overhead in the mixer so you need to be careful with mixer levels.

I recall Ableton Live's mixer used to overload easily in earlier versions and presume this was before the mixer went 64bit.

Im hearing some distortion in Studio One Producer.

Now that Im aware of it Im wondering if my ears are just looking for that distortion now and its putting me of using it

It seems strange they would cripple the non Pro versions in this way.

What are the real implications of the bit depth difference between the versions?

Nb
I cant believe Im bringing up this age old topic that has been argued over and dispelled but need an informed opinion about Studio One

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:34 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:IMO this means less overhead in the mixer so you need to be careful with mixer levels.

OK, here we go again. Let's suppose this is 32bits floating point. Then accidentally overshooting peaks will remain overshooting peaks. Nothing to worry about.

If it is integer maths, then 64bits won't help at all. Hence it's gotta be floats it uses.

In either case, your audio interface won't like it. So if you have a habit of feeding clipping audio, then stop doing that. Or put a limiter on your master bus.

Next plz?

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:42 pm

Thanks Bertkoor

Just checked and its 32bit floating point.

So in that case, if this makes no difference as you state, whats the point?

Your statements conflict as at first you indicate "nothing to worry about" and later you state "your audio interface wont like it".

The way I see it Im correct about headroom

pough · Post by **pough** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:01 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:So in that case, if this makes no difference as you state, whats the point?

As far as I am aware: RAM. Nothing else.

https://www.ableton.com/en/articles/64bit-myths-facts/

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:18 pm

Thanks Pough

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:21 pm

pough wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:So in that case, if this makes no difference as you state, whats the point?
As far as I am aware: RAM. Nothing else.

https://www.ableton.com/en/articles/64bit-myths-facts/

That link is referring to the actual program being 32 or 64 bit.

The Studio One query I have relates to the bit depth of the mixer.

As mentioned above, I believe in this case it relates to headroom and clipping.

Thanks anyway.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:44 pm

You'd almost never clip anything in 32-bit float so it's a non-issue.

Double-precision 64-bit float summing, while technically superior on paper, is very highly likely beyond the hearing and/or monitoring capabilities of most so it falls squarely into the the realm of "pointless minutia" imo, mmv.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:22 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:What are the real implications of the bit depth difference between the versions?

none whatsoever.

xx JPRacer xx · Post by **xx JPRacer xx** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:35 am

Probably if you have super, hyper long effects chain and processing, with round off errors accumulating, maybe at the end of the chain you could hear a difference but even then...

I'm sure for 99.99999% this makes no difference.

olepro · Post by **olepro** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:40 am

Just keep your master channel below 0 db, otherwise your audio card will destort.

Ciberithm · Post by **Ciberithm** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:58 am

It's not the size of the number, but the precision that increases with 64 bit. A 32-bit floating point number can contain up to 9 significant digits, while a 64-bit float can contain up to 17. With only 9 significant digits, a fair amount of rounding error can accumulate, especially with long FX chains. I personally can't hear the difference, but I know that mathematically it's there.

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:25 am

Thanks to all who replied

I hadnt done any extensive tests.

I now believe what Im hearing is a combination of sounds when mixed together giving the impression of distortion.

I think its a bit naughty of Presonus to advertise and include this feature difference but not explain the implications, or lack of.

I guess theyre hoping users will blindly shell out the extra money for the Professional version thinking it will sound better.

CTStump · Post by **CTStump** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:05 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:Thanks to all who replied

I hadnt done any extensive tests.

I now believe what Im hearing is a combination of sounds when mixed together giving the impression of distortion.

I think its a bit naughty of Presonus to advertise and include this feature difference but not explain the implications, or lack of.

I guess theyre hoping users will blindly shell out the extra money for the Professional version thinking it will sound better.

It's by no means "Naughty" when there is a demo available which the potential buyer can install and test prior to purchase.

False claims can be confirmed thru that time tested method, Studio one is capable whether you mix 32bit or 64bit if you maintain the correct gain structure.

note: Edited to eliminate harseness

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:33 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:Your statements conflict as at first you indicate "nothing to worry about" and later you state "your audio interface wont like it".

What I meant by that, is that your overshoots will be rendered as they are, and not clipped off. So the audio engine itself can handle it.

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:18 pm

No worries, thanks again to all

Studio One - Audio quality