Any websites that attempt to categorize scales by mood?

[cj31387]

As the title says. Is there any websites that categorize scales by feel, mood, or generally sounding like something? Something like this, but for scales?

http://www.biteyourownelbow.com/keychar.htm

[stringtapper]

This kind of stuff goes back to (at least) Plato, who claimed that certain modes were certain (sometimes very specific) situations.

The idea of modal affect continued through the middle ages and beyond with people associating certain modes with the humors, or bodily fluids that were believed to influence emotions according to the primitive science of the day.

If you're wanting to use this for anything more than research into the history of associating modes with affect then I wouldn't bother. The reason is that it is completely subjective. You or I could create our own list of what we think the emotive properties of certain scales are. It's not something we can objectively measure.

[Hink]

so I guess you dont think a minor scale sounds darker than a major scale?

Anyhow, I think that if someone chooses to believe that different modes, different keys or whatever has different emotions attached to them that there is nothing wrong with that. It could be a personal thing, we all do not 'feel' the same things from identical sources when listening so maybe we dont all feel the same when composing. I dont think there is a person on earth who can tell me how I feel or what I am suppose to feel nor are there any people who can judge what my feelings are when producing so in my opinion attempting to correct someone on what you believe to be a misconception may not be helpful. Maybe you dont understand their composing techniques but that's simply not up to you to dictate.

I think that there are huge differences not only in scales/modes, keys, chords and even more so in pitch changes. I get a different vibe from changes in all of the above and just because others do not does not make me or others who feel the same way wrong.

For the OP I think that when it comes to scales it's more a personal thing, I am not sure looking for a site that will tell what the feel is is anything but counterproductive and you should concentrate on what YOU feel and how to express that. Scales and chords can be played in so many different ways, in different positions and inversions to say one scale feels one way may not hold true for the listener.

Feel is developed, not taught imho...use the keys in your link as a guide but beware that those guidelines might only work for you and not others and that's okay...you want to develop your own identity and feel...not go by a cookie cutter recipe

[stringtapper]

so I guess you dont think a minor scale sounds darker than a major scale?

Anyhow, I think that if someone chooses to believe that different modes, different keys or whatever has different emotions attached to them that there is nothing wrong with that. It could be a personal thing, we all do not 'feel' the same things from identical sources when listening so maybe we dont all feel the same when composing. I dont think there is a person on earth who can tell me how I feel or what I am suppose to feel nor are there any people who can judge what my feelings are when producing so in my opinion attempting to correct someone on what you believe to be a misconception may not be helpful. Maybe you dont understand their composing techniques but that's simply not up to you to dictate.

I think that there are huge differences not only in scales/modes, keys, chords and even more so in pitch changes. I get a different vibe from changes in all of the above and just because others do not does not make me or others who feel the same way wrong.

For the OP I think that when it comes to scales it's more a personal thing, I am not sure looking for a site that will tell what the feel is is anything but counterproductive and you should concentrate on what YOU feel and how to express that. Scales and chords can be played in so many different ways, in different positions and inversions to say one scale feels one way may not hold true for the listener.

Feel is developed, not taught imho...use the keys in your link as a guide but beware that those guidelines might only work for you and not others and that's okay...you want to develop your own identity and feel...not go by a cookie cutter recipe

Odd response. You're basically saying the exact same thing I said, but framing it as if I'm somehow telling someone something is "wrong" or they shouldn't feel a certain way.

Of course that's not what I said at all. I said it's subjective, which is pretty much the same thing you said.

There was no "correction" in my post and certainly no "dictating" in it.

Weird.

[Tricky-Loops]

D minor



http://www.gradfree.com/kevin/some_theo ... l_keys.htm

[robogone]

D minor

"It's called 'Lick my Love Pump'"

[coquillo]

Weird.

Too much Locrian will do that.

[Melkor]

Ionian = Heroic, Hopeful, Royal
Dorian = Mellow, Smooth, Jazzy
Phrygian = Dark, Foreboding, Sinister
Lydian = Dreamy, Bright, Floaty
Mixolydian = Folky, Bluesy, Tough
Aeolian = Sad, Tragic, Mournful
Locrian = Diseased, Wrong, Alien

Whole-Tone = Wonderous, Curious
Diminished = "Cinematic" "Filmic"


As always with modes, MMV

[Hink]

so I guess you dont think a minor scale sounds darker than a major scale?

Anyhow, I think that if someone chooses to believe that different modes, different keys or whatever has different emotions attached to them that there is nothing wrong with that. It could be a personal thing, we all do not 'feel' the same things from identical sources when listening so maybe we dont all feel the same when composing. I dont think there is a person on earth who can tell me how I feel or what I am suppose to feel nor are there any people who can judge what my feelings are when producing so in my opinion attempting to correct someone on what you believe to be a misconception may not be helpful. Maybe you dont understand their composing techniques but that's simply not up to you to dictate.

I think that there are huge differences not only in scales/modes, keys, chords and even more so in pitch changes. I get a different vibe from changes in all of the above and just because others do not does not make me or others who feel the same way wrong.

For the OP I think that when it comes to scales it's more a personal thing, I am not sure looking for a site that will tell what the feel is is anything but counterproductive and you should concentrate on what YOU feel and how to express that. Scales and chords can be played in so many different ways, in different positions and inversions to say one scale feels one way may not hold true for the listener.

Feel is developed, not taught imho...use the keys in your link as a guide but beware that those guidelines might only work for you and not others and that's okay...you want to develop your own identity and feel...not go by a cookie cutter recipe

Odd response. You're basically saying the exact same thing I said, but framing it as if I'm somehow telling someone something is "wrong" or they shouldn't feel a certain way.

Of course that's not what I said at all. I said it's subjective, which is pretty much the same thing you said.

There was no "correction" in my post and certainly no "dictating" in it.

Weird.

so I'm weird?


I was responding to

If you're wanting to use this for anything more than research into the history of associating modes with affect then I wouldn't bother.

you said it was subjective and a waste of time when composing and I respectfully disagree to the latter...I think whether it is useful or not is not up to you and you did not answer the OPs question which was quite direct. BTW you failed to answer my question...do you think Minor scales are darker than Major scales?

[stringtapper]

I was responding to

If you're wanting to use this for anything more than research into the history of associating modes with affect then I wouldn't bother.

you said it was subjective and a waste of time when composing and I respectfully disagree to the latter...I think whether it is useful or not is not up to you and you did not answer the OPs question which was quite direct.

How do you get that I said it's "a waste of time" from me saying "I wouldn't bother"…?

And you essentially said it's subjective too, by stating that "we all do not 'feel' the same things from identical sources when listening."

And you seem to even further agree with me when you conclude by advising one to "not go by a cookie cutter recipe."

So yeah, all that substantive agreement framed within a post that seems to portray disagreement is somewhat weird.

BTW you failed to answer my question...do you think Minor scales are darker than Major scales?

Define "darker" in a musical context.

[Hink]

I was responding to

If you're wanting to use this for anything more than research into the history of associating modes with affect then I wouldn't bother.

you said it was subjective and a waste of time when composing and I respectfully disagree to the latter...I think whether it is useful or not is not up to you and you did not answer the OPs question which was quite direct.

How do you get that I said it's "a waste of time" from me saying "I wouldn't bother"…?

And you essentially said it's subjective too, by stating that "we all do not 'feel' the same things from identical sources when listening."

And you seem to even further agree with me when you conclude by advising one to "not go by a cookie cutter recipe."

So yeah, all that substantive agreement framed within a post that seems to portray disagreement is somewhat weird.

BTW you failed to answer my question...do you think Minor scales are darker than Major scales?

Define "darker" in a musical context.

maybe it's a regional thing because I sure do consider "I wouldn't bother" (bother being the key word) to be the same as a waste of time, sorry And also I didn't mean to come across like I was coming at you

You are right our posts have some common parts but I tried to give him suggestions on developing feel which IMHO can get lost in music theory because music theory pretty much needs to be objective. I did say that I would avoid cookie cutter recipe which is also what music theory needs to be imo (at least to an extent, especially when starting out)...that's why I said feel is developed and I offered him ways of doing so.

As for defining darker musically...you know what you're spot on, my bad and my question was ill-conceived so please allow me rephrase the question...do you think there is a difference in feel between a major and minor scale? To be honest you dont even have to answer the question because if there wasn't a difference why bother? (sorry couldn't resist ).

So it's possible that some are more sensitive to that 'feel' than others. Some may only hear it here and there while others may posses a much deeper feel for music in this sense (that is not meant as a dig at anyone, it's just art is so subjective we cannot assume our way is the only way). I have been mocked here in this forum for suggesting different feels in different keys is real, even more so with scales/modes, chords and such. That's why I say feel is developed.

Once perhaps it's my bad, maybe 'feel' does not belong in the MT forum and should be in EE

BTW again for the OP, I (and it seems stringtapper agrees) just do not think a web page is the total answer here and I would start with your link as guide and experiment with scales and modes within the keys to see what feel each gives you. A scale in one key just simply may not give you the same feel in a different key...or on the same instrument for that matter (heck on guitar a scale with same notes played on different strings can alter the feel). Your question has a lot of variables to it and it takes time to develop feel (I've been at this a looooooooooong time, I'll let you know when I think I have developed feel ) so I suggest that you look inward when it comes to feel and not to others

[stringtapper]

As for defining darker musically...you know what you're spot on, my bad and my question was ill-conceived so please allow me rephrase the question...do you think there is a difference in feel between a major and minor scale? To be honest you dont even have to answer the question because if there wasn't a difference why bother? (sorry couldn't resist ).

So it's possible that some are more sensitive to that 'feel' than others. Some may only hear it here and there while others may posses a much deeper feel for music in this sense (that is not meant as a dig at anyone, it's just art is so subjective we cannot assume our way is the only way). I have been mocked here in this forum for suggesting different feels in different keys is real, even more so with scales/modes, chords and such. That's why I say feel is developed.

I agree that this "feel" is developed, but I think it may be more of a cultural issue than simply something one develops through listening or practice. In other words a fellow in Uganda may have developed a completely different "feel" for a certain collection of pitches or sounds than I have growing up in a Western society. That's why I think it's ultimately subjective to label these things in such ways.

[Hink]

As for defining darker musically...you know what you're spot on, my bad and my question was ill-conceived so please allow me rephrase the question...do you think there is a difference in feel between a major and minor scale? To be honest you dont even have to answer the question because if there wasn't a difference why bother? (sorry couldn't resist ).

So it's possible that some are more sensitive to that 'feel' than others. Some may only hear it here and there while others may posses a much deeper feel for music in this sense (that is not meant as a dig at anyone, it's just art is so subjective we cannot assume our way is the only way). I have been mocked here in this forum for suggesting different feels in different keys is real, even more so with scales/modes, chords and such. That's why I say feel is developed.

I agree that this "feel" is developed, but I think it may be more of a cultural issue than simply something one develops through listening or practice. In other words a fellow in Uganda may have developed a completely different "feel" for a certain collection of pitches or sounds than I have growing up in a Western society. That's why I think it's ultimately subjective to label these things in such ways.

oh absolutely and it's even more "micro managed" than that if you will...I would say it's finer than cultural and often clique based. That's why it's important to develop your own feel, you could listen to my songs and realize quickly that this is an issue for me. Too many of my songs a technique over feel because I always play to damn fast, so even if it isn't true that a certain key makes you feel a certain way it can be helpful to still use those keys as a jumping off point. Whether or not it was the key or me that gets the intended feel only matters to me as long s I recognize that it was me and acknowledge it...then I grow

[jancivil]

as per scales/keys vis a vis harmonic music I think it's somewhat dodgy to first believe in some language in order to proceed, because these things reside in context, musical context. Why would D minor be 'the saddest of all keys'? That's a good joke because it points out a silliness of this kind of thing.

NB: Quite a lot, and I would venture a guess, most of the language in the page linked to in the OP, is about music when the keys meant something harmonically by their distance to the default of white keys. 'Eb minor is horrible [in affect]...' has to do with some disturbing-ass intervals in it! So a lot of this vanishes if placed in 12ET.

D minor, and this can be seen in "Lick My Love Pump", is typically harmonic music, so the choice of harmonies and voice-leading if not melody would seem to open up a lot of possibilities. If it's useful to believe that kind of sentence in order to get in the mood, I GUESS, but as we grow, we could become more objective and scientific about how to get an effect or suggest affect.

OTOH, some of the descriptions of modes have a bit of truth to them.

The writers talking about Raga go all out with this kind of thing:

"The king at war always worship Maravi, whose face shines like the moon and who has long tresses of hair. With moist eyes, faintly smiling, she is adorned skillfully with sweet smelling flowers of different varieties. Her complexion gleams like gold; she is attired in red and her eyes are like those of a fawn."

traditionally a certain practice was observed, the time of day.
overall mood defined by the sunset in India, which approaches fast and this "awakes in many observers a feeling of anxiety and solemn expectation".



Marwa technically does some unusual things. The tonic is a secondary tone. The drone chosen here is the Major Sixth and the Tonic, but the vadi, the strongest note, is the flat 2. There is no fifth. The fourth is never 'suddha', it's a sharp 4. There is a constant tension against the drone.
"For western listeners the tone material may feel strange. As the sixth is emphasised while the tonica is omitted it may feel like playing in A Major, while the base tone is C (not C sharp)"
And there are ideas prescribed as far as the handling, and things you can never do or you're ruining the idea.

So the thing IS BUILT FOR EFFECT. And the artist is charged with that. Rajendra's son Rishab does this with it:



So we can see there is something going on with this material that you have to go with. Maybe 'a sunset getting darker every minute' has something in it.

But harmonic music isn't typically built this way.

[elassi]

Did I mention already that I love jancivil's posts? Yes. But do it again.