The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[pc999]

As for the BIOS - it was the other way around: Linux changed the boot order (which I have never seen before happen) and I couldn't access the BIOS since on reboot I was at the Grub-Prompt within a second without seeing the usual BIOS screen.
This totally baffled me, since I didn't know that something like that is even possible.
Took me a while to sort out.

Cheers,

Tom

That happened to me to the first time I instaled it on a UEFI board, did the boot repair now it is flawless.



Anywya even if you dont use it for audio I would advice to keep it for other stuff (today I only go to windows because of audio(actually Reaper in wine runs very very well and I have been using it...), BWS may very well change that.




All the BWS info I am missing now is direct experience and price, I really hope it is not to much:!:

[jeffh]

Tell me about it...

So far no luck.
Jack is actually seeing everything my Firebox has to offer, all audio channels appear with the right names, even the midi channels, but although it says everything is fine and the server is running without errors and RT is lighting up, no application I tried was able to connect to those channels...

I read docs, I searched online, I watched YouTube Videos with smug people who rave about how there are so many settings for audio on Linux...

In the end I deleted the installation and started over, since I was unsure if those helpful people didn't do more harm than good with me having no way of knowing what all those kilometres of commandlinecode actually do exactly.

This was interleaved with Linux somehow messing with my bios so I couldn't start Windows anymore and the installer for the recommended Nvidia Drivers killing the X-System altogether so that I had to find out how to uninstall and purge them from the commandline.

So nothing new there. Linux, after all those years (I ran my first Linux server something like 15+ years ago), is the same horrible mess that it always was, but this time I hope to be able to over time at least get a basic system running, even if it only works with the onboard sound.
But this can't be the future.
No way in hell.

Why oh why did BeOS fail back in the day

Well, can't be helped

Cheers,

Tom

The problem is that you are using Firewire, and by extension have no choice but to use Jack with that interface(I'll spare you my thoughts on what a fine piece of software Jack is)... The people who wrote the FFADO drivers decided to make them a user-land shim into Jack instead of the sane thing which would have been to write an ALSA Linux kernel driver.

However, almost all USB cards and many PCI cards are a very smooth experience in Linux. If you have one laying around, I would suggest giving that a try with the ALSA back-end and not messing with Jack at all. Also, every USB MIDI keyboard I ever tried worked perfectly in Linux as an ALSA MIDI device.

[pc999]

And try jeffh's Linux-only PyDAW while you are at it, very cool too.

[jeffh]

And try jeffh's Linux-only PyDAW while you are at it, very cool too.

Awwwwww.... Shucks

It's not Linux-only anymore though, it can be run on Windows or Mac using my dirty hack of a port using Virtualbox... (works well enough, albeit with a few limitations)

/end-thread-hijack

[dalor]

So, to stir the pot (like that's even possible in this thread ) - fictional date Monday, November 4th 2013 it is?

[hibidy]

I thought it was Halloween?

[gjvti]

.....
A good start and I'm sure this selection can be easily grown in the future if users ask for it (I will )....

Tom

Midi filter plugin seems extremely limited compared to what is possible in Live. So if you are going to ask Bitwig for more, then you could probably ask them for something more advanced like at least key and velocity range filter with smooth fade regions where events are filtered gradually. In live I use my own Max4Live midi filter device, which allows filtering and mapping about every midi event to every other midi event such as CC, aftertouch, pitchbend remapping, clock and other event filtering, midi data range inversion and so on.

When bittwig first appeared I contacted them with this question - but from replay I got that they are not interested in midi features expansion as they have focus on general audio workflow. Maybe now something has changed.

Best
Gunars

[sl1914]

They can't put all possible features to version 1.0.
If they want to survive as company they need to release a product that has enough important features that people want to buy it. And then make a new version with new features, just like other companies are doing.

[pc999]

When bittwig first appeared I contacted them with this question - but from replay I got that they are not interested in midi features expansion as they have focus on general audio workflow. Maybe now something has changed.

Best
Gunars

From a post on their FB, they included (at least some) midi tools in v1 because so many people asked for it, thats what changed.

[UncleAge]

Lack of midi tools may not matter after they open up the back-end so users can roll their own. And yes I know that's not a v1.0 option.

[pdxindy]

My understanding is that in Bitwig, unlike Live, you would be able to put 3rd party midi tools before an instrument, and not have to have them be on a separate track.

[ThomasHelzle]

My understanding is that in Bitwig, unlike Live, you would be able to put 3rd party midi tools before an instrument, and not have to have them be on a separate track.

Well, I was reluctant to talk about this so far, but somehow I think it is really important myself and I'm trying to make that as clear as possible in my posts to beta support.

Right now it's pretty bad: You neither can transport midi from one track to another like in Live, nor can you use midi-VSTs at all, since every plugin in a chain is getting the original midi.

For me this is a major problem and I fear it will be one for many other people too. While the latest internal midi tools and modulators can do a lot of what I otherwise often do with plugins, not being able to use things like Reaktor Sequencers etc. with VST-Plugins is bad.

Now I actually see how every plugin in a chain getting the original midi is of benefit, since one badly behaving plugin can't prevent later plugins from getting certain midi data. But not having _any_ way for mangling midi with non-factory tools other than inside of complex plugins like Reaktor, Bidule or the old Usine 5.8 is problematic, even in a V 1.0 IMO.


I guess this could also be a topic related to pdc - if every plugin is getting the original midi, you don't have any unpredictable delays there.


To (hopefully) solve this, I recently made a proposal to the Bitwig team, where there would be a specific module - similar to how many of the other "encapsulating" devices work - where every (VST-)plugin you position inside of it would have midi processed and forwarded.
This wouldn't break the current, IMO beneficial midi distribution inside a chain and you also wouldn't have to have different settings for how midi should be handled for tracks.
Instead, the user could decide by using this module that he wants to process midi for a specific series of plugins.

This would allow to - as pdxindy wrote - have multiple midi vsts in one chain instead of the clumsy way Live, S1 and many other hosts handle it.

My hope is, that this is somehow trivial in a node-based host to implement, but it's just a hope, not real knowledge yet, so don't quote me on it.

I hope this can be solved in a creative way!

Cheers,

Tom

[ThomasHelzle]

The problem is that you are using Firewire, and by extension have no choice but to use Jack with that interface(I'll spare you my thoughts on what a fine piece of software Jack is)... The people who wrote the FFADO drivers decided to make them a user-land shim into Jack instead of the sane thing which would have been to write an ALSA Linux kernel driver.

However, almost all USB cards and many PCI cards are a very smooth experience in Linux. If you have one laying around, I would suggest giving that a try with the ALSA back-end and not messing with Jack at all. Also, every USB MIDI keyboard I ever tried worked perfectly in Linux as an ALSA MIDI device.

Thanks jeffh (and the others) for your Linux feedback. Yeah, I guess that is the problem - and I share your view on jack, even with my limited knowledge.

I only have onboard audio otherwise and my non-USB midi-keyboard is connected via the Firebox as well...

Well, I'll let this grow over time.

Thanks for the infos and Cheers,

Tom

P.S. PyDaw looks great BTW.

[jeffh]

Thanks jeffh (and the others) for your Linux feedback. Yeah, I guess that is the problem - and I share your view on jack, even with my limited knowledge.

NP. Feel free to hit me up if you have any Linux questions, I have **a little bit** of experience with Linux...

I only have onboard audio otherwise

Most on-board audio works well in Linux, even at low latency. (ALSA works similarly to ASIO4all...). Of course, that probably entails not having super-audiophile-grade DA/AD converters unless your motherboard is made my RME, but it should be basically usable.

... and my non-USB midi-keyboard is connected via the Firebox as well...

Yeah, probably won't be of much use unless you have a supported USB MIDI break-out box to plug it into...

P.S. PyDaw looks great BTW.

Thanks

[Muziksculp]

Will Bitwig Studio be available as a download, and boxed version, whenever it is released ?