KVR Audio

Slovenec · Post by **Slovenec** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:08 am

Antares has just announced Avox 4 with 64 bit/AAX support. Avox 4 includes Mic Modeller EFX as part of the package. I purchased Mic Modeller EFX in June this year in anticipation of Antares finally making all their plug ins 64 bit/AAX compatible. I also owned Autotune since version 4 (updated to V7 64 bit) Avox Evo, Tube (that was then rebranded to 'Warm' at a ridiculous update price) and of course Mic Modeller EFX.

Like many other people here, I'm a loyal Antares user. So my question to Antares is: Why are you charging loyal users of your products an upgrade price for the privilege of going 64 bit/AAX when other manufacturers (some much smaller than Antares) are offering these upgrades for free?

Relabelling Avox Evo to Avox 4 without offering any new actual functionality or features is very sneaky marketing. The $79 upgrade price is a joke even if the package does contain 11 plug ins. I purchased Mic Modeller EFX in good faith only a few months ago only to find out that I'd affectively get if for free if I waited.

Yep I know that all of us have been in this situation and loyal Emagic/Apple Logic users who forked out thousands of dollars on the separate Logic instruments and effects in the early 2000s would be spitting chips knowing that this is now all available in Logic Pro X for $200!!!!!! However, the point here is that Antares (and a few other companies like Wavearts) should have no legitimate reason to charge for 64 bit/AAX updates other than to blatantly generate revenue. I loath the Waves WUP but at least I get new plug ins and features when it actually comes to the point that I have to update. Native instruments could have charged for their updates that came out recently. Celemony also offered free updates to Melodyne as did Rob Papen (to name but 3 examples).

I wrote to Antares a few days ago asking for an explanation. Needless to say, they're taking their time in getting back and I'm certain it's not because they're overwhelmed with other business.

I'm more than happy to pay for upgrades if it means new functionality and features that have been added to a product! Providing 64 bit/AAX support is NOT a feature! Antares did a similar trick a few years ago with their wonderful 'Warm' tube emulation plug in. They discontinued it only to re-introduce it with a new GUI under the name of 'Warm' at some ridiculous update price!

Do any other loyal Antares users feel that the company is ripping them off?????

Rant over for today.

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:47 am

How I see it:
- You acknowledge that the practices used are shady, and have been so for a long time.
- You say you're still a loyal Antares user.
- You don't want to pay for 64-bit support, understandably.

So I don't know why:
- You're a loyal Antares user
- You still expect good service and fair practices

As for 64-bit support, it probably took significant time and effort to add it, and it's a highly important update (unlike GUI) so charging for it is not necessarily shady, but it does suck.
The final point is: you can find better, for most of the Antares stuff, company-wise and product-wise. Keep what can't really be replaced, but keep it to a minimum, with such a company.

popskull · Post by **popskull** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:23 am

I'm upset about it but they can do and charge what they like. They must know they are one of the very few who are charging for 64bit compatibility. I sent an email asking for a better deal than the $79 auto-tune 7 to auto-tune 7 and they said it was a separate product. That's ok - i wont buy that separate product.

nix808 · Post by **nix808** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:45 am

I don't use Antares,
but often 64-bit is hard to write I understand.
I think a payed update for x64 is understandable,
it is a substantial functionality.

Slovenec · Post by **Slovenec** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:58 am

Some valid points are raised above and the feedback is always welcome! I'd love to give Antares the ass but some of their plug ins such as 'choir' and 'warm' I use regularly not to mention Autotune.

As I mentioned, I have nothing against paying for new functionality. I strongly object to the sneaky marketing and hence, I will be looking elsewhere to replace the Antares products that can be replaced with other manufacturer's products... Melodyne has already done it for Autotune for a start

Antares can stick their marketing where the sun doesn't shine and it's great to have choices when dealing with these kind of asshole companies

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:59 am

Shy wrote:How I see it:
- You acknowledge that the practices used are shady, and have been so for a long time.
- You say you're still a loyal Antares user.
- You don't want to pay for 64-bit support, understandably.

So I don't know why:
- You're a loyal Antares user
- You still expect good service and fair practices

+1

I'd also add:

- Never buy a plugin for what it might have in the future (regardless of what any developers ever say), buy it for what it is now

dalor · Post by **dalor** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:30 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Shy wrote:How I see it:
- You acknowledge that the practices used are shady, and have been so for a long time.
- You say you're still a loyal Antares user.
- You don't want to pay for 64-bit support, understandably.

So I don't know why:
- You're a loyal Antares user
- You still expect good service and fair practices
+1

I'd also add:

- Never buy a plugin for what it might have in the future (regardless of what any developers ever say), buy it for what it is now

I agree logically - but I can see how people do it for the 'love' of the product, meaning, you know the interface inside out, you know what it does when you turn the knob and get things done the way you want. For this reason the company has you by the balls.

32 > 64 bit can be a major task (that has been discussed to death on here).

I was really surprised about companies like Soundtoys, who didn't charge for their 64-bit release.

popskull · Post by **popskull** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:30 am

It's not such a big task 32 bit to 64 bit. If small companies , often one man shows, can knock it off quickly and at no cost to the loyal customer then surely Antares can. Valhalla DSP, DMG Audio, eaReckon, Loomer, PSPaudioware just to name a few.
They got bad feedback for charging for autotune 7 32 bit to autotune 7 64 bit, so they thought it wise to lessen the blow by calling AVOX a new version and adding Mic Mod that most of us already have and dont get compensated for in AVOX 4. Basically treating loyal customers like they are idiots. Well done Antares. Articulator 64 bit doesnt even work in Live and now they have dropped vst 2 support , so even worse.

dalor · Post by **dalor** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:48 am

I wouldn't call it exactly an easy task that can be done in x minutes. Some companies spent well 2+ years to get this done. It's obviously different for an entire product bundle than a single plugin e.g. Waves, which could require a rewrite of the framework first before even getting to the plugin.

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:17 am

popskull wrote:It's not such a big task 32 bit to 64 bit. If small companies , often one man shows, can knock it off quickly and at no cost to the loyal customer then surely Antares can. Valhalla DSP, DMG Audio, eaReckon, Loomer, PSPaudioware just to name a few.

Oh, so I "knocked off" my AAX ports quickly? COOL! I wish I had known about this. Here I am, still working on the AAX ports like a chump!!!!

When my AAX ports are done, they will be free updates. Having said that, I don't blame any company that charges for AAX updates. The porting process can take a HUGE amount of time and labor, and companies with employees either need to eat the dev costs, or raise prices to make these costs back.

Sean Costello

musicdoc · Post by **musicdoc** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:41 am

Antares is a small company that made its $ off of auto tune software. Now with just about every major DAW having this functionality or software included, I think their sales have to be suffering and they have to be using every trick in the book to survive. Yes, that includes charging for 64 bit upgrades.

I'm on Cubase here, a long time user of antares until Cubase 5 when it got it's own version. I was skeptical at first, but I've found that the on board software integrates much better, faster with similar results.

Maybe if you are doing some extreme pitch shifting there is some advantage to using antares auto-tune, but for 99% of my work which is fixing the occasional out of tune note, on-board software is just fine. Hence, I've not used Auto-tune for like 3 years now.

Of course if you're using the throat modeling or other antares software, then this doesn't really apply.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:15 am

popskull wrote:and now they have dropped vst 2 support

No they havent, they've only dropped it on the Mac side. Are there any Mac hosts which only support VST2, but not AU or VST3? Doubt it.

I agree this upgrade is a bit disingenuous if you paid full price for any of this stuff, but Antares have been pumping a lot of this stuff out at silly prices (like $20 and $30) for at least 18 months, so it was kinda predictable. The upgrades for some of the individual AVOX plugins are $9.99 and $14.99.

popskull · Post by **popskull** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:33 am

Don't get worked up, i said its not such a big task. I didn't say it was easy. Bottom line is most companies thought it right to not charge for 64bit. Plus the ones I mentioned above, lets add Soundtoys, Flux, 2C-Audio, D16, I could mention more. I don't think I can mention many that charged - i.e. Antares. I have to eat as well Sean and I love your plugins as well which I have bought. Its a fine line between keeping customers happy - often ones that dont make a whole lot of money out of music, and developing product. If your going to charge for a 'new product' make it a new product and not just a compatibility upgrade - compatibility upgrades are customer loyalty/support/kudos points. The reason I mentioned dropping vst2 support is I contacted support regarding articulator 64bit crashing live9.1. They said why don't I use the vst instead of au. ah - you dropped vst2 support Antares!

Kevin63101 · Post by **Kevin63101** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:48 pm

popskull wrote:Don't get worked up, i said its not such a big task. I didn't say it was easy.

What do you base this on? Are you a programmer?

I think a bigger issue than charging for an upgrade is when a developer discontinues support for future compatibility. Either way, it's usually a business decision to keep a company healthy, not a greed decision -- programming time is a real cost. Not all upgrades can be supported by potential future sales. At least a paid compatibility upgrade keeps a product compatible.

If you don't need it right now, you could gamble that the next upgrade cycle will get you 64 bit PLUS new features without any extra charge for passing on this upgrade. If you need it now and willing to pay, then it means it's worth the value they are charging you -- I'm sure some customers don't want to wait for new features before getting 64 bit compatibility. Antares is gambling that this upgrade charge is reasonable and won't adversely affect future sales.

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:43 pm

Slovenec wrote:Why are you charging loyal users of your products an upgrade price for the privilege of going 64 bit/AAX when other manufacturers (some much smaller than Antares) are offering these upgrades for free?

Did AVID update Pro Tools to 64 bit/AAX for free?

Antares up to it's old tricks again?