FAW Circle - EULA

[ChiTown24]

Totally agree. And remember, it only came down in price in the last year - prior to that it was listed at �149 on the FAW website. Mine cost me around �75 I think.

by the way, I had a look at their facebook page... which is active

We are currently having activation issues under OS X Mavericks. We are looking into the problem and will issue an update as soon as possible...Stay tuned for development updates.

The last update came out at the end of September.
Anyway, maybe try getting in touch through Facebook ? Or emailing from a different address or something ? Or perhaps since they're working on activation issues with OSX Mavericks any support requests related to activation might be temporarily put on 'hold' while they're trying to sort it out on their end ? Who knows, I don't want to speculate on what's going on. But, from my experience, they always come good in the end... just slower than some other devs. At the risk of repeating myself, this is something I balance against the bang-for-buck ratio I'm already getting...

hang in there bro

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[ChiTown24]

and i know i can activate it now.. but in a year i am sure this 3yo macbook will go as will my imac. How will i know i can activate it on my new machines? The OP's story is not inspiring. If Gavin comes here and publicly promises to improve support turnaround, i will take a punt.

I know the feeling Theo, and I'm sure we share the same concerns about Challenge/Response copy protection {the worst of all imo}. My mac is 7 years old, their first intel mac. Already I'm being locked out of the x.* updates of some of my software with no other option but to buy a new computer, because the last couple of OSX OS's won't install on my machine. That double sux because it's kind of a kick in the balls to have a dev drop support for an OS midway through a plugin/app's development. IMO if I bought something supported on 10.6.8, it should stay that way until the next paid upgrade at least. But hey, that's another story.

Anyway I'm in the same situation {maybe even a bit worse as I pointed out above} as you and still I am happy to place my confidence in FAW based on my past experiences with them. The OP's experience isn't anything close to 5star, but so far it fits in with my own experiences that [a] there can be some slow communication but they come good in the end. When I've saved the money to upgrade my machine, I'll try emailing them in advance. But really, considering what it's cost me, if it takes a few weeks to get re-activated I'll just suck it up. I'll reserve getting angry until such hypothetical time that the company folds and doesn't provide a serial protected update for the existing users. But I don't see them folding to be honest, seems like a skeleton crew plus they've got income from iOS apps, anyway I don't see them folding and leaving people stuck with software they can't activate. My faith is based on experience, so it's totally understandable if you don't share it and are still apprehensive about making a purchase. I guess you just have to weigh up the risks yourself and see if the bang-for-buck-VS-risk ratio stacks up for your own personal tastes.

Also, be very sure you want to keep the synth before purchase... since selling the license might not be quick enough for your taste/need.

Not trying to be an apologist/fanboy here. Customer support is an integral part of the purchase price, just giving my own experience and my opinion that given the price it all balances out in the end. good luck everyone.

[zimske]

After getting wrist-slapped a while ago on another topic, I'll briefly chime in with my experience which, again, may or may not be on topic. Slap me again, if you will.

I had a deal settled with a great guy regarding the 2nd hand purchase of licence, here on KVR, but the licence somehow did not work. Anyway, the whole process of purchase and activation lasted for, I'm guessing, some 6 weeks or so. Ticket after ticket, waiting, sleeve pulling, pleading, Facebook messaging, phone calling (hell, it worked with the NI!), waiting some more - I swear to god, I felt like a psycho stalker) - and finally it ended up in refunding. No more, I'm out.

Then, some time after, support actually(*) gets in touch and the thing miraculously resolves on its own deus ex style. They just drop the licence, muster some kind of an apology and that's it. And I buy it again.

Maybe I should have not done this. Maybe I just should have taken the hint from one of Gavin's lectures when he said something in the line of "don't bother" when talking about the copy protection. But I really liked the synth, hell, I still do. For learning and intuitive patching there's nothing I can compare it with. That's why I went through all the way. If the deal with the seller had failed completely, I cannot say I still would not have bought it directly from FAW. It is that great.

But what's done is done and after all of this I do happily tweak and patch the thing but I honestly do not look forward on communicating with support regarding any issues and any time soon.

(*) At the time they were developing the updates, so I'll give them that. But still, posting status on Facebook about how someone sent them a ticket saying the synth is great and on the other hand not even responding to the other tickets... I mean, priorities, smh and stuff...

[mcnelson]

Thanks for your contribution - totally on topic, and I think it strengthens the assertion that when it comes to customer service, FAW are seriously dropping the ball.

We all agree that Circle is a great synth, but FAW won't be in business for the long run if they consistently ignore customer support requests, which this thread certainly proves. Yes, it may sort it self out in the long run, but who in this day and age is going to wait 6-8+ weeks to activate some software they've bought?

Plenty of other small / boutique devs do a much better job, possibly with less resource.

[zimske]

I'm aware that no ranting will help, but I hope at least that this topic will help future users making an informed decision when considering separation from their money.

The thing is, I did my due dilligence before the purchase, and was well aware of the support issues before pulling the trigger. That's why I did not expect much and was extremely patient. You get all Gandhi-like when having zero expectations, I guess. But that's also why I went for 2nd hand licence. No matter how good the software is, the issue with support does not justify even the current regular price.

For a moment I even entertained a thought of simply downloading warez, just out of spite. But I didn't even do that. Instead I honestly considered actual purchase directly from FAW. I really think it's that good. Go Gandhi Theresa!

On the other hand, and I'm not trying to justify their actions or sound even remotely apologetic, but I really cannot say that my (our?) case was the rule, and not an exception, you know? Simple logic says that there would have been hellraising on a weekly basis here on KVR if there were some serious support issues, wouldn't there?

[Numanoid]

We all agree that Circle is a great synth, but FAW won't be in business for the long run if they consistently ignore customer support requests, which this thread certainly proves.

They could do like Arturia.

Instead of fixing problems with Circle, they could discontinue it and instead release a new quite similar plug, maybe call it Cycle

Arturia had lots of problems with getting Analog Laboratory software to work with the hybrid control.

So what did they do, instead of fixing the problems, they discontinued the software leaving users who had bought the item behind, and instead released a new product called Analog Lab.

[ChiTown24]

take your off-topic Arturia grievances somewhere else Numanoid. The internet is a pretty big place, you don't need to grind your axe in a FAW Circle thread

[tooneba]

By the way why did you spend your hard earned money in such company?....

[SODDI]

Why do they have a support, and you can contact it, when they state that they won't do support? Can you maybe quote the whole support conversation with them?

The EULA contradicts what is stated in the set up guide (page 89), which is:

Every now and then you may need help on a certain problem, encounter an
issue with Circle or your system that you would like solved, or have a query
that you would like answered.

1) Visit the Circle Support Section at www.futureaudioworkshop.com/circle/
support. Here you will find answers and FAQ's on many different subjects
related to Circle.

2) If you were unable to find a specific answer to your query in the support
section of the Future Audio Workshop site, visit the online forums at
www.futureaudioworkshop.com/forums and use the provided search func-
tion to see if your query has been discussed and answered previously.

3) Contact support@futureaudioworkshop.com
with a description of the question or query you would like answered

EDIT: Correct forum link is here: http://www.futureaudioworkshop.com/betaforums/

Yeah, I think that text in the EULA is a legal fallback so that they aren't liable for providing support.

Like, they're doing it now because it's good business but sometime in the future they may not want to so the EULA legally releases them from doing so. Who knows?

[mcnelson]

Yes, that's how I read it.

BUT, is it support to ensure their activation servers are functioning correctly?

This is why I raised the issue of the EULA in the first place, as it provides no warranties at all - unlike the Audio Damage EULA example I provided, which states that the product should work as specified in the documentation (IIRC).

So in the case of the C/R system not working, FAW have the 'legal' fallback that they provide no warranties at all via the EULA, which you (the consumer) agreed to. Regardless of whether this makes any business sense, this is the basis upon which you, the consumer, enters into an agreement with FAW.

And this is why I believe it is far from "standard" and would invite you guys to find some other EULA's which may corroborate or refute the alleged "standard" aspect of the FAW Circle EULA. I'm thinking of devs like Uhe, ValhallDSP, well, anyone really. Sadly my plugin collection is not as big as TheoM's...hint hint.

NMG

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[mcnelson]

Not holding up AD as a shining paragon of virtue, was just an example I had to hand.

It does occur to me that the lack of any warranty may be due to C/R & activation servers - that if FAW were to go belly up, legally they wouldn't have to do anything to ensure that their customers could activate their products still?

I'm also not suggesting anyone would "sue" over a $70 synth, rather it is the basis of the relationship, set out in the EULA that concerns me. In future I don't want to support developers who have so little regard for their customers that they deny any responsibilities in the legal agreements which govern the relationship they have with those customers. It's their statement of intent and is akin to:

By agreeing to this agreement, legally I don't have to do jack sh*t for you, and if you have a problem with that, I've already got your money, now f*** off.

NMG

[Numanoid]

take your off-topic Arturia grievances somewhere else Numanoid. The internet is a pretty big place, you don't need to grind your axe in a FAW Circle thread

Four rolleyes!

Arturia example goes to show how this business works

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]