Satin OMG

[djscorb]

Maybe haven't looked good enough ?

Or haven't payed attention ?

From what I read (in your words) you are so biased, your words are so "colored"... that we can use you as a tape machine !!

I am English so am probably "coloured" rather than colored and "I" looked "well" enough and I "paid" attention at school. Maybe you should have too and you wouldn't have such atrocious spelling.



Seriously though I agree that SOS reviews are more in depth and are probably worth more than some of the other publications.

Of course not everything on gearslutz or kvr is gospel, I merely suggest that trusting the general consensus of the communities as a whole more valuable for judging the quality of a plugin than a magazine.

The fact that I personally find CM articles shallow and of little use to anyone but beginners was a side point.

Cheers

Scorb

[Rah]

CM review scores tend to be a bit 'hyperbolic' in my opinion

I think if you take 10 as really bloody good, it's about right.

[Tp3]

Maybe haven't looked good enough ?

Or haven't payed attention ?

From what I read (in your words) you are so biased, your words are so "colored"... that we can use you as a tape machine !!

I am English so am probably "coloured" rather than colored and "I" looked "well" enough and I "paid" attention at school. Maybe you should have too and you wouldn't have such atrocious spelling.

Well then, you'll have to forgive me... coloured and colored are interchangeable (oddly, google translate will notify you - or, us - you have made a MISTAKE when writing "coloured". check this very site, when you write it down) - depending if you write Britain English or American English.
"Well", "good", "I"... Uhhh... OK, you got me. I made some stupid mistakes (well, I'm neither American nor British so I guess you could cut me some slack...).

You could attribute "Payed" to somewhere else I was reading, and there some a "Paved..." word. so sorry, again (I'm an ADD on steroids - so to speak. don't ask, it's much too complicated...)

Seriously though I agree that SOS reviews are more in depth and are probably worth more than some of the other publications.

Of course not everything on gearslutz or kvr is gospel,

That's exactly the next thing I was about to say.

Read whatever you can (or want) but BELIEVE only things that represent the same line of thought you possess.

I merely suggest that trusting the general consensus of the communities as a whole more valuable for judging the quality of a plugin than a magazine.

I do not agree. "general consensus" does not exist in the the way you might think it is. example : if Urs Heckmann would have pissed off 5 customers, they could have said the DIVA "SUCKS" and that's it... "General Consensus" in all it's glory.

The fact that I personally find CM articles shallow and of little use to anyone but beginners was a side point.

Cheers

Scorb

CM review were treated by the industry as inferior for many many years now. I can't say anything - good or bad - about the they grade software or hardware, but I reckon they have got way better then how they used to be.

Again, sorry if my English is not perfect.

[hibidy]

All your insults belong to us........

Seriously, what's negative about this? Er, it's not like we're talking about cables or cats

[djscorb]

Hey Tp3

Was a long day yesterday and I came down a bit hard on your spelling there hehe! It was a bit of a train wreck though and hard to let that one slide.

I assumed you were American due to your spelling of coloured but if you are not a native English speaker then I apologise for bringing you up on spelling and grammar, it's a pet hate of mine. I'm sure I can't spell at all in your native tongue so sorry about that.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you are driving at with your example of 5 people expressing sour grapes at a developer as being a general consensus for judging whether a plugin is worth demoing or buying. Can't really see the point of that statement to be honest.

General consensus merely means the opinion of the majority. Nobody is going to get that from the opinion of 5 users alone. As you suggest, the onus is on you or I to make a judgement ourselves as to whether something is valuable to us or not. That goes as much for magazine reviews as it does to the products themselves.

When I talked about eureka moments from forums that helped my production I was thinking of compression advice from Greg Scott (UBK, Kush Audio) on Gearslutz, Q&As with top engineers, listening to Andy Cytomic, Sean Costello or Dave Gamble's ideas and opinions, feedback from users about plugins and outboard that they have been using in real world situations for extended periods of time etc.

This level of expertise and knowledge has to be rooted out from the general babble of course but it is far more valuable than a year of CMs or Future Music. Last time I bought CM was to get Cableguys Volume Shaper I think. I sat down with a coffee to read the magazine and couldn't find anything of any depth to read at all. In fact the coffee lasted longer and was more satisfying!

Whenever I hear the audio examples in the tutorials in CM and the like that claim to show you how to sound like x or y, they are laughably short of the mark. I'm not saying there aren't occasionally things of worth in there, but an average issue offers little to anyone beyond the complete beginner.

Ok, this should really be in a thread of it's own. Back to Satin

Cheers and sorry for the long post

Scorb

[Tp3]

Anyway, I'm not sure what you are driving at with your example of 5 people expressing sour grapes at a developer as being a general consensus for judging whether a plugin is worth demoing or buying. Can't really see the point of that statement to be honest.

General consensus merely means the opinion of the majority. Nobody is going to get that from the opinion of 5 users alone

That's where you're wrong. and that's my point.

5 People who say "this and that" can start a "general consensus" - and it doesn't matter if it's RIGHT OR WRONG.

If I were to say that you are from India - and 4 more people would have said that too ... well, that's it. there you have it :
a "general consensus" which is PLAIN WRONG.

Nothing in our world is "Merely...". NOTHING.

I'll repeat myself again : Read whatever you can (or want - and that's only a suggestion) but BELIEVE only things that represent the same line of thought you possess. personally, I take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt. EVERYTHING. from ANYONE and EVERYONE.

And back to the topic, after our "atrocious" deviation : SATIN IS very good. quantifying its abilities pisses you off ? well, so be it. I see nothing different between KvR forum, who gave it a silent "10" (well, not so silent. not a all. on the contrary) and an audio magazine (and AFAIK, its crew lurks around here, BTW) who gave it a "10".

[djscorb]

The difference is that an opinion in a forum can be rebuked or countered and so is more useful than a magazine which has an agenda. I don't have an agenda when I come on a forum unless you consider learning or killing time an agenda.

Your point about 5 people being able to start a "consensus" is valid but then there is opportunity for more people to join in and counter that view. Hopefully at some point the truth emerges as to whether or not someone comes from India or whether a plugin is useful or better than x or y, or whatever.

A magazine represents only one view and when they are found at fault will likely not print a retraction. If they do it will be hidden away in small print.

I don't understand why you are not getting this very simple concept.

I agree with you that people should only judge from their own perspective. This is precisely one of the reasons a magazine review is largely useless.

There really is no more to say unless you enjoy arguing with yourself because I really do think this thread should now return to the topic of Satin.

Cheers

Scorb

[Urs]

All I can say is, all our products prior to our advertisement in CM received outstanding reviews. We started advertisment a few months after ACE got 4 awards, 10/10 and product of the year.

If I could publish conversation with CM people you'd see that, like people form Sound & Recording, Keyboard and Emusician, they're genuine fans of our work. Out of these magazines, CM is the only one where we could actually afford to advertise regularly.

I'm very on the fence with some other magazines. Interestingly, some magazines directly threatened to ignore us if we didn't do advertisment, and some wrote hilariously uninformed reviews.

CM is one of the few magazines who do proper fact checks, get things right and thus it's one of the few magazines we trust.

IIRC, the Satin review slams some competitors who put way more advertisement into CM. Think about that too.

[Novalis]

Interestingly, some magazines directly threatened to ignore us if we didn't do advertisment, and some wrote hilariously uninformed reviews.

I think it would be fair enough if you would name them.

Seriously, it should be not a secret which magazines are doing such a "business practice". I would not buy any more issues from them.

If they decided to blackmail some developers (which it is, exactly) they should be aware that such "tactics" can become public.

[The_Hidden_Goose]

Even if one doesn't trust CM's opinions in particular, you can probably just as well use it as another source of praise for Satin - adding to the consensus here at KVR or GS. It could still be a point of persuasion when thinking about buying, in a "these guys think so too!" kinda way. So it's all good, really.

[Urs]

Interestingly, some magazines directly threatened to ignore us if we didn't do advertisment, and some wrote hilariously uninformed reviews.

I think it would be fair enough if you would name them.

Seriously, it should be not a secret which magazines are doing such a "business practice". I would not buy any more issues from them.

If they decided to blackmail some developers (which it is, exactly) they should be aware that such "tactics" can become public.

They're not stupid. I have no proof. It would be libel to name them.

[djscorb]

True Dat

Satin is a great toolbox for colour. I can't wait for the dust to settle and to hear various tips and tricks people have found after we've all become more experienced and familiar with it

I've been enjoying using the Dolby trick for adding some sizzle to ride cymbals recently, magic!

The manual flange sweeping across resampled parts of the track can be a lot of fun too.

Cheers

Scorb

[7visions]

Love Satin!

[Tp3]

True Dat

Satin is a great toolbox for colour. I can't wait for the dust to settle and to hear various tips and tricks people have found after we've all become more experienced and familiar with it

I've been enjoying using the Dolby trick for adding some sizzle to ride cymbals recently, magic!

The manual flange sweeping across resampled parts of the track can be a lot of fun too.

Cheers

Scorb

Well, there is an ongoing project where I live : people are recording live songs into tape (real reel), in one take. no editing, no software. I'm planning to try and to do that with SATIN as the means to record.

But it might take time.

[djscorb]

Dave Grohl's Sound City documentary and the double length episodes of Pensado's Place on Fairfax Recordings are pretty inspirational for the minimalist recording ethos.

The guy that now owns the Sound City studio was singing the praises of using just two mics on a drum kit and going straight to tape with little or no processing.

Cheers

Scorb