Waldorf Pulse 2: officially released (OS updated to v1.18)

[namnibor]

Has anyone considered that this may have just been something of a blatant oversight on the beta testers? It's not the first time such things are overlooked because as above post indicates, NOT everyone programs and uses their synths the same fashion.
I could understand if this stepping happened when pushing the Drive/Overdrive/feedback circuit whilst sweeping the filter, and also *appreciate* different company's differing sounds in filter/osc's, et al., as do have a Pulse+ at O.S. 2.01 and can say with confidence the Classic Pulse is definitely smoother on the filter sweep but also can get just as aggressive sounding as Pulse 2.
Also, my Waldorf Mini-Works 4-Pole Filter, (12 Volt version), which is basically a Pulse sans the three oscillators, is also smoother on the sweep.

There's also the price-point in the USA of $799., of which my sales person at Sweetwater states they are not able to give any discounts on this price as it's ALREADY discounted--my brain is struggling with it's retail price, not the interface, as I quite like a matrix programming grid, plus had planned to learn to use the editing Template made by Till Kopper for iPad/iOS App TBmidiStuff.

Do we actually KNOW for certain that 14 Bit Midi is NOT utilized? Could this simply be brought to attention of Waldorf as a 'bug'? Also, does this stepping of filter go away when modulating/sweeping the filter with either an Envelope or LFO as what happens on certain digital synths?
Thanks.

[Ingonator]

I dont know with wich version the pulse is now shipped, but the "new" V1.13 is nearly bug free


i did a sweep demo, first a short normal use sweep, then a very long sweep and there is indeed something like steps hearable
but for me that doesnt matter such long sweeps i dont use

http://soundcloud.com/the-trooper-1/pulse-2-sweep

too step-ish for me. i need smooth stuff. i'll wait for new Largo

First i want to mention that i have noticed this dicussion and have added a new discussion to the beta forum. This also includes those 3 demos that i have created myself today (all are WAV files):

1.) shorter sweeps:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... ep%201.wav
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... ep%202.wav
2.) long sweep:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... ep%201.wav

The Resonance amount used for those is slightly below the point where self-oscillation starts.
In the longer sweep at the beginning it seems to sound normal and later a bit strange indeed. To me it sounds like there is a "opulsating" behavior like a very slow LFO modulation, not exactly what i call "steppy".

Besides several analog parts the envelopes seem to be digital which could be a possible reason for this. I got no example at the moment but it is possible that older analog synth with digital ebvelopes have a comparable behavior.

I'll have to wait for a reply from a developer, also to know if this could be solved somehow.

Using analog envelopes could be a solution but those would be expensive and usually not as flexible (e.g. different modes and also the "loop" modes).

The reason that this was not found at the sound design could be that such long sweeps are quite unusual esepcially for monophonc sounds. For shorther sweeps used in some patches this usually could not be noticed (also see the demo above with the short sweep). This means that for the "practical use" this usually should not be a problem. Personally this is no reason to really change my mind about the Pulse 2, IMO it is still an awesome synth with great sound and tons of features.


Ingo

[zerocrossing]

http://www.juno.co.uk/products/waldorf- ... redirect=1

Hm, I bet that's expensive to ship though, but still under the $800 price tag it's selling for in the USA.

[faun2500]

but isn't this the place to discuss this things?
Should we just be quiet about what we think could be improved?

Yes it is. No please don't. Tell me everything about the pulse 2.

[namnibor]

@ INGO:

Thanks! **Your audio** is profoundly different and actually acceptable even in the "long sweep", so perhaps 1) the O.S. has had some tweaks, or 2) original poster had earlier O.S. installed?

It's a bit confusing because are there not now TWO O.S. 1.13 out there? The one that had been posted at Waldorf while a bit too "green" and then the 1.13 that replaced it with those bugs fixed, or am I confusing 1.12?

Now, given that the Waldorf Q is digital, it's wonderfully versatile and indeed looping envelopes never add unwanted characteristics to filter sweeps.

I own an old Sequential Circuits Prophet 600 in which, although analog VCO's, VCF, VCA--the envelopes ARE digital, and although there's no looping capacity, the digital envelopes do NOT add any unwanted 'stepping' to filter sweeps.

@INGO: Since you now have a model with the CV/GATE Outs, wondering if possible to hear an audio example of the Classic Pulse+ connected to Pulse 2 cv/gate out and to hear how the filter/freq responds to cv/gate controls?
Thanks!

[faun2500]

I dont know with wich version the pulse is now shipped, but the "new" V1.13 is nearly bug free


i did a sweep demo, first a short normal use sweep, then a very long sweep and there is indeed something like steps hearable
but for me that doesnt matter such long sweeps i dont use

http://soundcloud.com/the-trooper-1/pulse-2-sweep

too step-ish for me. i need smooth stuff. i'll wait for new Largo

First i want to mention that i have noticed this dicussion and have added a new discussion to the beta forum. This also includes those 3 demos that i have created myself today (all are WAV files):

1.) shorter sweeps:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... ep%201.wav
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... ep%202.wav
2.) long sweep:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... ep%201.wav

The Resonance amount used for those is slightly below the point where self-oscillation starts.
In the longer sweep at the beginning it seems to sound normal and later a bit strange indeed. To me it sounds like there is a "opulsating" behavior like a very slow LFO modulation, not exactly what i call "steppy".

Besides several analog parts the envelopes seem to be digital which could be a possible reason for this. I got no example at the moment but it is possible that older analog synth with digital ebvelopes have a comparable behavior.

I'll have to wait for a reply from a developer, also to know if this could be solved somehow.

Using analog envelopes could be a solution but those would be expensive and usually not as flexible (e.g. different modes and also the "loop" modes).

The reason that this was not found at the sound design could be that such long sweeps are quite unusual esepcially for monophonc sounds. For shorther sweeps used in some patches this usually could not be noticed (also see the demo above with the short sweep). This means that for the "practical use" this usually should not be a problem. Personally this is no reason to really change my mind about the Pulse 2, IMO it is still an awesome synth with great sound and tons of features.




PS:
My Pulse 2 testing unit is now replaced with a final unit, same way as other users got too. The testing unit was missing the CV outputs for example.


Ingo

I think you should turn the rez up a bit and do some longer sweeps up and down.

Using long sweeps is VERY normal in a lot of dance music. Trance for example uses long filter sweeps for fx and pads/drones. Its actually one of my favourite synth sounds, so smooth sweeps that sound creamy (thinking moog here) is what I am after.

[Goldenage2012]

Thats exactly how i see it.

For me the resonance its the main thing in subtractive synthesis.
And yes, slow sweeps hearing the harmonics created by resonance should be liquid.

Like was said before from 100 up on resonance you can hear stepping, with no distortion or anything add to it.

Yes, it is still a great sounding synth and can do a lot of different things, but the stepping is there big time, i think the digital controls in general still need some tuning and maybe bigger resolution in order to get this machine to sound more analog.

[namnibor]

I have waited, as well as some others have, for SO long for release of Pulse 2, have done very good in the GAS department, even resisting the MS20-mini...which has been REALLY hard considering I went from decade of Classical piano to learning synthesis back in 1982 on the original MS20....now I am thinking since I already have a Classic Pulse+ and this new Pulse 2 does not even HAVE cv/gate IN, only out (odd for a module, you think?), the MS20-mini just may be more utilitarian, quasi-modular, definitely smoother filter, does not sound digital, and it too, will integrate with my Elektron Analog Four....once I decide if I really like/hate the thing....needs an O.S. update to make me able to remotely use it like my Polymorph...perhaps a Spectralis is what I should have gotten?! MS20-mini is also few hundred USD less....a Moog Sub Phatty is only a few more than Pulse 2. Cool to have choices...not cool releasing unfinished products!
Rant over! Like all things Waldorf, will wait for mature O.S. and what this effects board entails....all from a distance.
Customers should not be beta testers

[acidfever]

Using analog envelopes could be a solution but those would be expensive and usually not as flexible (e.g. different modes and also the "loop" modes).
Ingo

$200 dollar more expensive Sub Phatty does it fully analog (with looping modes).....including keys....and a full set of controls, and an genius standalone/plugin editor.


I think your argument is invalid.

Can you please conform with Waldorf if the envelopes are digital or analog?

[EvilDragon]

Pulse 2 has digital envelopes (AFAIK), and modulations are updated at 1000 Hz or so, according to the developer.

[acidfever]

But Sub Phatty does not have 5 different envelope triggering modes nor does it have looping envelopes.


I think your argument is invalid

Don't know about yours but the unit I have here has 2 trigger modes and envelope looping & reset.

EDIT: Ah.....you beat me with editting your response....

[EvilDragon]

Right, I googled and found out that Amos added envelope looping in an update - I wasn't aware of that.

[acidfever]

Right, I googled and found out that Amos added envelope looping in an update - I wasn't aware of that.

No problem. Thing is... More and more I get the feeling that Waldorf has cut some serious corners with this unit. Don't get me wrong, here in Europe the Pulse 2 is just over half of the price of a sub phatty but with the US pricing the $200 dollar price difference is hard to sell I think (given you get a full set of controls, a 2 octave keyboard with excellent keys! and last but not least....the best standalone/plugin editor I've seen to this day).

I still think the Pulse 2 has it's own sound and definitely produces interesting sounds (which is what matters in the end) but Waldorf should be more open about the exact specs (for instance, I can read the exact value range of parameters in the Moog manual, why isn't that available in the Pulse 2 manual?).

The 14 bit/filter sweep discussion adds to this.... nice little synth...but with the usual Waldorf quirks.....

[EvilDragon]

Re: exact values of parameters, depending on the parameter they are mentioned in the manual "in thereabouts", though. Well, LFO speed is mentioned that it goes from 4.38 minutes to 100 Hz.

[namnibor]

Well, I let my GAS explode and *finally* just pulled trigger on a nice yellow Q Keyboard...always wanted one, as have a buddy that has Q Rack...so it kind of is a reflection of the "old Waldorf and new", if you know what I mean?