Cakewalk Sonar X3

[vintagevibe]

I am not angry as you appear to assume. I think it's quite educational to point out with a real-life example of the exact kind of behavior that I'm describing. I'm not sure how you got to out-of-proportion, since I didn't embellish that story in anyway. My last statement about overween et al, can be considered 'opinion' - my summation of that incident, but I would bet most would characterize it as such.


The way it stands, many at the CW forums have noted the change these days, and describe it as a breath of fresh air. If that kind of fresh air disgusts you, so be it.

By out-of-proportion I mean a way over the top reaction that comes off as angry and and aggressive. Your remark about fresh air disgusting me sounds like you're just making things up to use as verbal weapons. Allow me to quote you:

"Naturally, they are completely oblivious as to how they act toward others, and are incapable of seeing themselves in others shoes."

[lfm]

The no-I-wont-contact-support guy is case in point and is typical. Whatever his issue was, his rather arrogant and self-important rant detracted from his ability to get help. He argued rather forcefully for a couple of pages, before the folly of refusing offered help began to sink in. It's quite understandable that he might feel put-upon, but then he was the author of his own opprobrium. Quite rightly.

Havn't really read what this guy wrote, but it could be he had the same experience with Cakewalk support that I have had....

Same experience indeed.... You didn't wait for the demo to be released before buying a DAW that you are now angry about.

Amazing how people can't seem to stop themselves from doing this... then feel they are entirely in the right when they come on here and rant about how they got screwed over!

Do you work at Cakewalk support?
You really remind of that guy having my last topic.

Not reading what anybody wrote - and making up your own explanations as you go.

[flugel45]

The no-I-wont-contact-support guy is case in point and is typical. Whatever his issue was, his rather arrogant and self-important rant detracted from his ability to get help. He argued rather forcefully for a couple of pages, before the folly of refusing offered help began to sink in. It's quite understandable that he might feel put-upon, but then he was the author of his own opprobrium. Quite rightly.

Havn't really read what this guy wrote, but it could be he had the same experience with Cakewalk support that I have had....

Same experience indeed.... You didn't wait for the demo to be released before buying a DAW that you are now angry about.

Amazing how people can't seem to stop themselves from doing this... then feel they are entirely in the right when they come on here and rant about how they got screwed over!

Do you work at Cakewalk support?
You really remind of that guy having my last topic.

Not reading what anybody wrote - and making up your own explanations as you go.

No, I don't work for CW.

And I've followed most of this (X3) thread. Just pointing out that the majority of the angry posts here are from people bitter about previous Sonar versions. The few angry about X3 bought it without waiting for the demo.

So what's your point?

[SuperG]

I am not angry as you appear to assume. I think it's quite educational to point out with a real-life example of the exact kind of behavior that I'm describing. I'm not sure how you got to out-of-proportion, since I didn't embellish that story in anyway. My last statement about overween et al, can be considered 'opinion' - my summation of that incident, but I would bet most would characterize it as such.


The way it stands, many at the CW forums have noted the change these days, and describe it as a breath of fresh air. If that kind of fresh air disgusts you, so be it.

By out-of-proportion I mean a way over the top reaction that comes off as angry and and aggressive. Your remark about fresh air disgusting me sounds like you're just making things up to use as verbal weapons. Allow me to quote you:

"Naturally, they are completely oblivious as to how they act toward others, and are incapable of seeing themselves in others shoes."

Well then, does the 'fresh air' over at the at the CW disgust you, or not? That is the question, and only you can answer it, because if it does, I am certainly not 'over the top', am I?


As for 'naturally', I have no problem with that description of a narcissistic individual lacking social empathy - it's typical of troublemaker types - and it's natural for those types to feel intense injury when confronted, it's the nature of it.

 

[jkleban]

I just don't understand the futile discussion about what is good and what is bad about software.... if you like it, it works for you or vice versa, use it or don't.

However, there is no doubt that the bakers over at cake have a new attitude toward the users of the forum (which I think is a good thing). Is every bug fixed, nope, did the major GUI change of the X series have a positive effect (in my opinion, finally YES), etc?

So, I respect both negative and positive input of the product and have made my own mind up on the verdict of SONAR X3. And if someone disagrees with my opinion, I either ignore them or pause for some thought that I may have missed an idea or point that I haven't considered.

I recently tried STUDIO ONE 2 (I have the producer license) and thought it was pretty good piece of software. Did it do enough for me to make it my GOTO DAW, not really, but I wanted to keep my mind open to alternatives to my current DAW, in case I change my opinion. There is a high hurdle for me to switch from my current DAW, namely, the years of experience of using it has a very high value to me as compared to starting anew with a completely different workflow.

I appreciate the opposing views in this thread but perhaps not all the bickering it creates.

Jim

[worstcaseontario]

SuperG asks "Well then, does the 'fresh air' over at the at the CW disgust you, or not?"
This question was directed at a member other than myself, but I will answer anyway.
I assume that this "fresh air" that is talked about is the same thing as the "gesalt" that the Gibson guy was on their forum talking about.
I would not say it disgusts me, but I will say that I am disappointed in the direction that forum is taking.
I have learned ninety-five percent on what I know about music production by lurking around the Sonar forum. For some unkown reason, they used to let you do whatever you wanted over there, the only rule was not dropping f-bombs( sorry, I don't like being mealy-mouthed, but I don't know the policy of this board regarding creative swearing). The original probably hippy Cakewalk guys probably wanted it that way, but Roland never really understood that they were providing the infrastructure for their own message to get away from them. The new Gibson guys are not so naive.
I would like it better over there if there was a rule about putting wether or not you ever take money from Gibson/Cakewalk right under you avatar.

[SuperG]

SuperG asks "Well then, does the 'fresh air' over at the at the CW disgust you, or not?"
This question was directed at a member other than myself, but I will answer anyway.
I assume that this "fresh air" that is talked about is the same thing as the "gesalt" that the Gibson guy was on their forum talking about.
I would not say it disgusts me, but I will say that I am disappointed in the direction that forum is taking.
I have learned ninety-five percent on what I know about music production by lurking around the Sonar forum. For some unkown reason, they used to let you do whatever you wanted over there, the only rule was not dropping f-bombs( sorry, I don't like being mealy-mouthed, but I don't know the policy of this board regarding creative swearing). The original probably hippy Cakewalk guys probably wanted it that way, but Roland never really understood that they were providing the infrastructure for their own message to get away from them. The new Gibson guys are not so naive.
I would like it better over there if there was a rule about putting wether or not you ever take money from Gibson/Cakewalk right under you avatar.

Well said.

They have reigned it in a bit. I will venture that, even today, the CW forums are still way more open and a lot hairier, comparatively, than their competitors. This is why you will see topics like 'things I hate about Cubase' by former Sonarites here at KVR rather than at Steinberg's forums. In the past, people would think nothing about starting such a flame-bait thread at CW.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

And I've followed most of this (X3) thread. Just pointing out that the majority of the angry posts here are from people bitter about previous Sonar versions. The few angry about X3 bought it without waiting for the demo.

In all fairness, EVERYONE who bought X3 did so without a demo. How would they know in advance whether or not it would work for them? Have these hundreds, if not thousands of people all done something wrong? There's an expectation that large software products will work reasonably well, though not without some minor bugs. Based on that, I can't fault anyone for upgrading without a demo.

[vintagevibe]

And I've followed most of this (X3) thread. Just pointing out that the majority of the angry posts here are from people bitter about previous Sonar versions. The few angry about X3 bought it without waiting for the demo.

In all fairness, EVERYONE who bought X3 did so without a demo. How would they know in advance whether or not it would work for them? Have these hundreds, if not thousands of people all done something wrong? There's an expectation that large software products will work reasonably well, though not without some minor bugs. Based on that, I can't fault anyone for upgrading without a demo.

But of course if you upgraded and had problems it is somehow your fault.

[vintagevibe]

SuperG asks "Well then, does the 'fresh air' over at the at the CW disgust you, or not?"

Just for the record I never said anything about the "fresh air" or anything bout the new attitude on the form. SuperG made that up.

[flugel45]

And I've followed most of this (X3) thread. Just pointing out that the majority of the angry posts here are from people bitter about previous Sonar versions. The few angry about X3 bought it without waiting for the demo.

In all fairness, EVERYONE who bought X3 did so without a demo. How would they know in advance whether or not it would work for them? Have these hundreds, if not thousands of people all done something wrong? There's an expectation that large software products will work reasonably well, though not without some minor bugs. Based on that, I can't fault anyone for upgrading without a demo.

X3 is largely being hailed by its users as a vast improvement over its predecessors. So "in all fairness" the majority of complaints in this thread are not about X3, but rather from people with older versions.

IOW, the hundreds or thousands of people you are talking about are the ones who don't have X3. (Of course, there are some X3 users with problems, but if you spend any time at the Sonar forums, it's pretty obvious that their issues are getting worked out -- or, at least, the devs are making an effort).

Just sayin'.

[SuperG]

And I've followed most of this (X3) thread. Just pointing out that the majority of the angry posts here are from people bitter about previous Sonar versions. The few angry about X3 bought it without waiting for the demo.

In all fairness, EVERYONE who bought X3 did so without a demo. How would they know in advance whether or not it would work for them? Have these hundreds, if not thousands of people all done something wrong? There's an expectation that large software products will work reasonably well, though not without some minor bugs. Based on that, I can't fault anyone for upgrading without a demo.

But of course if you upgraded and had problems it is somehow your fault.

Did you upgrade?

[SuperG]

SuperG asks "Well then, does the 'fresh air' over at the at the CW disgust you, or not?"

Just for the record I never said anything about the "fresh air" or anything bout the new attitude on the form. SuperG made that up.

Where is it that I quoted you? I posited a question.

[jens]

It's quite funny that I have to select "other" as my location instead of Europe to get a much better price (same value in dollars instead of €) in the Cakewalk shop.

[SuperG]

It's quite funny that I have to select "other" as my location instead of Europe to get a much better price (same value in dollars instead of €) in the Cakewalk shop.

It's worse than that - it's not even just a Cakewalk thing.

This type of thing has been going on for years with artifically-restricted markets. Heck, region codes were invented on DVD so they can milk the public.

The thing to watch out for is the Transpacific Trade Agreement - recently leaked. As usual, the US is being an ogre, as it does with most trade agreement.

It's so damn bad, the US wants to eliminate the common notion of 'First Sale' which means once an item is sold, you own it and can then resell it to anyone. TPTA would allow companies to modify a sale and just about criminalize 'First Sale' doctrine, so companies can extract even more money.

It's sorta like having a bad dream about a dystopic, corporate-controlled world, after watching Blade Runner...

http://wikileaks.org/tpp/#start