KVR Audio

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:16 am

Ehh... It's perfectly usable. How often does one need 8 octave sweeps?! Don't be ridiculous.

lalo · Post by **lalo** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:23 am

EvilDragon wrote:Ehh... It's perfectly usable. How often does one need 8 octave sweeps?! Don't be ridiculous.

is there any problem if i need for my music those kind of things?
i use very long sweeps with my analog ms-10.
i use to do a lot of live improvised electronic and electroacustic music.
expressivity and accuracy are a key factor.
i'm not really into dance-oriented styles.
a lot of my stuff relies on modulation.
accuracy is very very important.
i don't think to be ridiculous at all

at least not on this point

i try to do ridiculous music sometimes

i don't think that 14 bit Osc frequency ( better said than "pitch" in my case )control will give you a lot of problems. But would solve a lot of mine.
Am i wrong?

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:33 am

EvilDragon wrote:36 semitones, separately adjustable up and down, IIRC. It's in the manual.

additionally to that the oscillators got a range of +/- 48 semitones (= +/- 4 octaves) and the global semitones setting additionally is +/- 24 semitones.

Those ranges are big enough for my taste and should cover the whole audible spectrum.

I seriously don't see how you could need a bigger Pitchbend range than +/- 3 octaves.

Ingo

lalo · Post by **lalo** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:37 am

Ingonator wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:36 semitones, separately adjustable up and down, IIRC. It's in the manual.
additionally to that the oscillators got a range of +/- 48 semitones (= +/- 4 octaves) and the global semitones setting additionally is +/- 24 semitones.

Those ranges are big enough for my taste and should cover the whole audible spectrum.

I seriously don't see how you could need a bigger Pitchbend range than +/- 3 octaves.

Besides that by some comments i have the impression that currently the Pulse 2 is in an unusable state which in no way is the case. In fact the synth now seem to be even better than when i made my factory sounds (which was at OS 1.07 and earlier).

Anyway we should be careful with new feature requests as each additional feature (and sometimes even fixes/improvements of exising ones) makes it possible to introduce new bugs to the OS. After intoducing 14-bit MIDI the focus should be really on making the current OS as rock solid as possible before intoducing new ideas/features.

Ingo

hey guys, i did not said that Pulse2 is noy usable.
Given that has a very good synth architecture i put my eyes on it.
I asked about MIDI CC resolution and that showed some limitiation for my particular use. A good pitch sweep should have a sub-halftone resolution. the best one is a hz by hz resolution. The human ears perceive an halftone sweep as a stepped one. This is a fact. Do you need an example?
I can easily do one with MaxMSP if you give me some minutes

Tupapupa · Post by **Tupapupa** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:40 am

Ingonator wrote:In the beta forum one developer (that you also posted here) mentioned he will try to add 14-bit MIDI for a limited amount of parameters (including e.g. Cutoff, Resonance, Modwheel etc.).
Ingo

although I do not necessarily need it, this is very nice to know

i am very satisfied with it at the moment

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:43 am

lalo wrote:
Ingonator wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:36 semitones, separately adjustable up and down, IIRC. It's in the manual.
additionally to that the oscillators got a range of +/- 48 semitones (= +/- 4 octaves) and the global semitones setting additionally is +/- 24 semitones.

Those ranges are big enough for my taste and should cover the whole audible spectrum.

I seriously don't see how you could need a bigger Pitchbend range than +/- 3 octaves.

Besides that by some comments i have the impression that currently the Pulse 2 is in an unusable state which in no way is the case. In fact the synth now seem to be even better than when i made my factory sounds (which was at OS 1.07 and earlier).

Anyway we should be careful with new feature requests as each additional feature (and sometimes even fixes/improvements of exising ones) makes it possible to introduce new bugs to the OS. After intoducing 14-bit MIDI the focus should be really on making the current OS as rock solid as possible before intoducing new ideas/features.

Ingo
hey guys, i did not said that Pulse2 is noy usable.
Given that has a very good synth architecture i put my eyes on it.
I asked about MIDI CC resolution and that showed some limitiation for my particular use. A good pitch sweep should have a sub-halftone resolution. the best one is a hz by hz resolution. The human ears perceive an halftone sweep as a stepped one. This is a fact. Do you need an example?
I can easily do one with MaxMSP if you give me some minutes

Understood

We're all hoping for some higher res

lalo · Post by **lalo** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:53 am

sqigls wrote:]
Understood
We're all hoping for some higher res

words of wisdom.

lalo · Post by **lalo** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:15 pm

10 octaves and a fifth halftone sweep up for 5000 ms and down for 5000 ms

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1uag650wnorl ... _sweep.wav

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i49k4ai3ryj08 ... _sweep.mp3

20 - 16000 hz sweep hz by hz up for 5000 ms and down for 5000 ms

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjc2typkecfk99d/hz_sweep.wav

https://www.dropbox.com/sm/create/Audio ... _sweep.mp3

any difference ?

Goldenage2012 · Post by **Goldenage2012** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:19 pm

This is great news, thank you for listenning

I think osc frequency is very important also, specially for fm sounds when you want to modulate one oscillator against the other or the filter..

Would be great to get the lfo's as well, u could do hertz by hertz that way, i dont know who else has it but it would be great to see it on pulse, just like the master tunning by hertz is a great usuful tool.

Filter tracking is also very important, for us to be able to go 100 or 200 + or - rather then 63..so we can play the filter and tune it.
filter envelops, Eg, amp envelopes to if possible

So all together would be great to see 14 bit resolution in :

Oscillators frequency,

Lfo's rate and amounts,

Cut off and resonance,

EG amounts,

Filter keyboard tracking,

Vcf and vca envelops

Ill pay for that update if need it and will buy another pulse 2.

Goldenage2012 · Post by **Goldenage2012** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:24 pm

lalo wrote:10 octaves and a fifth halftone sweep up for 5000 ms and down for 5000 ms

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1uag650wnorl ... _sweep.wav

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i49k4ai3ryj08 ... _sweep.mp3

20 - 16000 hz sweep hz by hz up for 5000 ms and down for 5000 ms

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjc2typkecfk99d/hz_sweep.wav

https://www.dropbox.com/sm/create/Audio ... _sweep.mp3

any difference ?

Yes, you can definitely hear more stepping on the first,
but for some people those sweeps are done really slow so not sure what your trying to show here?

lalo · Post by **lalo** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:29 pm

i'm simply try to show that the present implemetation can't allow smooht sweeps.
i would define a time of 5 seconds a very long time.
there are a lot of examples of sweeps even longer in all electronic music styles.

lalo · Post by **lalo** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:32 pm

basicly a lot of people including me are asking for a more analog like behaviour in the control department. I think that Pulse2 will benefit a lot. Accuracy is a great part in very good sound quality.
Pulse2 has a so great synthesis chain and deserves a more accurate control of critical parameters.

a.

Goldenage2012 · Post by **Goldenage2012** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:37 pm

Haha, I am in the same page as you my friend, just really didn't understand the point.

If the sweep was done really slowly you could hear the stepping way more, so i thought u were trying to hide the stepping..lol

Best wishes and it sounds like our wishes will come true.

lalo · Post by **lalo** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:46 pm

Goldenage2012 wrote: Best wishes and it sounds like our wishes will come true.

yeah! let's keep the hope!

namnibor · Post by **namnibor** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:08 pm

Ingonator wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:36 semitones, separately adjustable up and down, IIRC. It's in the manual.
additionally to that the oscillators got a range of +/- 48 semitones (= +/- 4 octaves) and the global semitones setting additionally is +/- 24 semitones.

Those ranges are big enough for my taste and should cover the whole audible spectrum.

I seriously don't see how you could need a bigger Pitchbend range than +/- 3 octaves.

Besides that by some comments i have the impression that currently the Pulse 2 is in an unusable state which in no way is the case. In fact the synth now seem to be even better than when i made my factory sounds (which was at OS 1.07 and earlier).

Anyway we should be careful with new feature requests as each additional feature (and sometimes even fixes/improvements of exising ones) makes it possible to introduce new bugs to the OS. After intoducing 14-bit MIDI the focus should be really on making the current OS as rock solid as possible before intoducing new ideas/features.

Ingo

In all due respect, I am sorry if I even remotely gave that impression as well. It's so hard at times to convey emotively, semantic-correctly-received amongst even diverse dialects that even English is perhaps not their best second or third language; especially on forum formats, when we musicians/Cultural Creatives, possess such a passion for what we are working on or working to achieve.

I happen to be a now Recently Retired/Disabled Military Veteran in which certain job requirements left me with some health issues/mobility, as in Peripheral Neuropathy in hands/fingers, and with medications, only my fingertips on certain fingers vary to partially/total numbness. Hence, I am one to adapt and made my whole focus on Ambient/Atmospheric/Soundtracks/Gaming Soundtracks even, rather than more progressive rock used to with total synth hardware studio...other than iPad and Waldorf NAVE...am writing this because my journey in Ambient and Experimental Music has me USING such LONG filter sweeps via ultra long envs/lfo rates, to evolving sounds without audible stepping...but am one of the rare people that the Moog sound just is not something currently wowed by, having for years been a Emerson Lake and Palmer fan, I certainly appreciate and love the music/sound.

So, after touch really is a great tool for me for obvious physical reasons and although I am far from a guru on MIDI and still reading two inch book on advanced MIDI, I had no idea that after touch was (always??) at a lower bit rate, as on all other synths honestly never heard anything but what I programmed it to do---not bit crushed.

Help me understand please, whomever may have time.

I DO have an AVID interest in the Pulse 2 and actually moreso forthcoming keyboard version talked about in a German interview Steffan Stenzil (sp?) talked about. I am sure totally usable for almost anyone's needs...I just have some current compositions going on that if I were to add anything, esp. Pulse 2, absolutely need more of a dreamy, non stepping, but certainly not a Moog filter. I quite like both the analog and digital filters Waldorf have historically to present provide us as tools.

I apologize if I came across excessively critical or more likely, sardonic--as is my wont. We certainly do not wish the Pulse 2 O.S. to become harder to prevent introducing new unwanted bugs, nor long process the Blofeld has gone through and while at it, the ARP on Blofeld **please** needs first note on sync tweaked or something along that line as well as something else with sampling options/wavetable creation/import.

Thanks for reading and for developers taking notice to few things mentioned in this very diverse bodied thread. Love this site!

Waldorf Pulse 2: officially released (OS updated to v1.18)