The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[Ogopogo]

^Maybe you are right. I guess I'm ignorant since I don't use that stuff.

[solidtrax]

Can I drag&drop marked clips to the mixer or/and arranger view? And if yes, is all the automation with it?

If you mean selected clips with marked clips then its possbile.
To the arranger view all automation can be copied (or not )
To the mixer it will bounce the clip to a sampler instance. Just curious, why would you like this last bit?

[aharu]

[quote="pdxindy"][quote="Ogopogo"]^Sure, I think we are on the same page. I'm not saying it shouldn't be a showstopper for some. It's just that it's a tad beyond basic I think.[/quote]

Name another host that cannot use an arpeggiator or other midi plug-in?

In Bitwig I could not use Geist as I commonly do either. Nor any step sequencing. These are very common uses. I understand the lack of AU support, but there are lots of VST plug-ins that are also not supported in Bitwig. I guess that if this is not addressed before 1.0 is released that Bitwig will get skewered for it.[/quote]

This is what I'm talking about, we got thesys, chordspace, cthulhu, catanya, tonespace, wok's midi stuff, harmony improvisator, bluearp and cream, just to mention some of them, and personally I depend on these kind of tools. Maybe glitch, effectrix, stutter edit and imageline gross beat could be added to this list too, I don't know the inner technicalities here lol.

Considering the number of arp, harmony and chord tools there are, I really think this is basic functionality nowadays. To be honest, I think this will be sorted out until the 1.0 release.

[bungle]

Name another host that cannot use an arpeggiator or other midi plug-in?

Renoise

[The Mantra]

Weak Midi routing, no multi out for vsts, and no cross-fades seem to be the main "standard" components missing for now.

All of these sting, but are not enough stop me from buying Bitwig. I personally want to support them because I want them to succeed and I want them to keep Ableton on their toes.

I suspect that some may not be so forgiving and rip Bitwig apart for these flaws (this is the internet after-all). My guess is that some, if not all of these issues will be addressed between BW 1.5 and BW 2.0, but you never get 2nd chance to make a 1st impression.

My question to the community is:
Do you think these shortcomings (individually or collectively) are worth Bitwig breaking their promise to release by the end of the year?

[popskull]

No cats so it must be getting serious. What about vocoders? Can you send midi and a synth feed into a vocoder?

[pdxindy]

Name another host that cannot use an arpeggiator or other midi plug-in?

Renoise

I rest my case...

[hibidy]

Weak Midi routing, no multi out for vsts, and no cross-fades seem to be the main "standard" components missing for now.

All of these sting, but are not enough stop me from buying Bitwig. I personally want to support them because I want them to succeed and I want them to keep Ableton on their toes.

I suspect that some may not be so forgiving and rip Bitwig apart for these flaws (this is the internet after-all). My guess is that some, if not all of these issues will be addressed between BW 1.5 and BW 2.0, but you never get 2nd chance to make a 1st impression.

My question to the community is:
Do you think these shortcomings (individually or collectively) are worth Bitwig breaking their promise to release by the end of the year?

I missed the no multi outs somewhere. I can't live w/o that, gigantic show-stopper.

[sl1914]

Isn't multi outs a feature used in most drum VSTs? So this would affect quite many users.

[hibidy]

It would be a death-sentence for me. SSD for example, would be unusable because unlike "studio drummer" or "superior drummer" or "battery" you have no FX to compensate. You'd be stuck with a stereo sum....that's it.

[dayjob]

no multi outs for plug ins would be a big bummer.. to compensate there would have to be something super awesome that tips the scales back the other way.

[egbert]

You would think that the whole purpose of starting with a clean slate code wise would be to have the freedom to design in flexible routing right from the start - rather than have cobbled together fixes for old code to achieve these - now pretty standard - features. Reaper is a perfect example of this flexibility. I am staggered that in 2013 someone would dare bring out new product without flexible MIDI routing and multiple outputs.

[tooneba]

Imagine the design of this GUI.. it looks like...

[firepile]

Well, as much as I agree about the substandard midi-routing between tracks, there is one thing were the current implementation inside of chains shines: All plugins in the chain get the full original midi, which in my experience is not always the case in other hosts. So you are able to reach every plugin however deep in the chain with control information.

But you are not able to add a step sequencer/arpeggiator and a synth on the same track?

[ThomasHelzle]

Well, while I basically agree with some of the assumptions here, I would take them with a grain of salt.

- First and most important: We're not there yet. I think some of those could actually be solved before 1.0 or not too long after.

- Seeing that both the BWS Drum Machine and the Instrument Layers already have multi-outs makes clear that the tech exists (actually rather simple to do in a basically nodal DAW), so I guess it's more a case of finding a good GUI solution.
Do you want to have all outputs always (can be quite a few in some cases) or do you need some options to enable and disable them (S1 does it rather nice and simple IMO).
Often it is not the problem to have all the technical options you can think off, but either you land in Reaper-Land with all those options drowning you, or you have a VERY HARD JOB of finding easy, clear and consistent solutions for presenting a maybe limited but usable, creative, inspiring Interface for it. This part is so much more work than just the underlying tech, but it's often not conceived as being the actually harder part.
It is, in many cases, believe me.

- I think I said it already: Plugins were not the main focus so far as I understand it, so the focus may look overly centred on the internal instruments, but it makes sense IMO: over the years of development, so much can change in the world of Plugins, that you would chase all the time after the latest development and updates instead of concentrating on a solid basis and the area you control yourself.
So they came up with note expression even before VST 3.x had it. ATM only the internal instruments are supported, but the same can be said for Steinberg And the tech being there, I'm sure it will be possible to adapt VST 3.x over time, hopefully easier so than Hosts who don't have the concept at all.

- I am sure that midi routing is on their radar in the meantime

- Crossfades seem to have some technical complications involved in a host that is so flexible with Hybrid tracks etc.
As limiting as it may be on one hand, on the other hand you can have multiple audio parts inside one clip - what would I sometimes have given for that possibility in Live...

So it's a give and take situation.
For people who want it all in there already, I don't think any 1.0 will do, no matter what software.
For people who enjoy the ride, the things that are actually better than what they have and who are happy to mix and match software, I'm sure the proposition is quite valuable.

So let's see what the next Betas will bring, what 1.0 will actually deliver and what the 1.x update cycle will look like.

Cheers,

Tom