KVR Audio

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:26 pm

firepile wrote:
ThomasHelzle wrote:Well, as much as I agree about the substandard midi-routing between tracks, there is one thing were the current implementation inside of chains shines: All plugins in the chain get the full original midi, which in my experience is not always the case in other hosts. So you are able to reach every plugin however deep in the chain with control information.
But you are not able to add a step sequencer/arpeggiator and a synth on the same track?

Not yet.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:38 pm

''For people who want it all in there already, I don't think any 1.0 will do, no matter what software.'' ''

Wise words - there have been some ludicrous posts within this thread (cats aside) people having to decide 'now' between BWS and 'an other' DAW.

BWS isn't even out yet, it is obviously still being beta tested and probably still being developed. When it does come out and 1000's of people get to play with it, many more bugs and problems will be found, this isn't a BWS issue- look at any new rerelease from Live to Cubase, it generally takes 3-4 point releases over 6-12 months to get the software stable!

I brand new entry to the DAW market with something of a hybrid Cubase/Live approach is a big deal, we all want it to be good and I for one will try it and watch its development with interest whilst doing 'projects' with Live and Cubase.

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:53 pm

Yesterday I checked out different subhosts to see how I can work around the midi limitations.

First I tried Bidule VSTi. Worked great and would be a viable solution since it is light and flexible.
This way I was able to run SugarBytes Thesys into AAS Chromaphone, Audio Damages Axon into Kontakt etc.

Next was Mulabs Mux. Worked great as well, but I hadn't updated its internal VST list for a while. On re-scanning everything there were several crashes of Mux from plugins it doesn't like. But BWS didn't crash, just showed the option to restart the plugin (Mux), which I did, re-started the plugin scan, Mux telling me that this or that plugin had crashed and will be excluded from the next scan. This happened about 3 or 4 times.
Quite brilliant, in other hosts I would have had to restart the whole DAW several times.

I haven't tested the old Usine 5.8 VST yet, that's next on my list. Hopefully Hollyhock will be available as VST too in the future.

What I also like: you can tell per plugin to run it in a separate process, which allows you to use full 4 GB even for 32 Bit Plugins. So I'm actually running 32 Bit Plugins only in BWS, telling Kontakt to run in it's own process. My other plugins aren't that memory heavy and 32 Bit offers still much more versatility. But BWS can host both so you can mix and match.

Cheers,

Tom

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:55 pm

SLiC wrote:''For people who want it all in there already, I don't think any 1.0 will do, no matter what software.'' ''

Wise words - there have been some ludicrous posts within this thread (cats aside) people having to decide 'now' between BWS and 'an other' DAW.

BWS isn't even out yet, it is obviously still being beta tested and probably still being developed. When it does come out and 1000's of people get to play with it, many more bugs and problems will be found, this isn't a BWS issue- look at any new rerelease from Live to Cubase, it generally takes 3-4 point releases over 6-12 months to get the software stable!

I brand new entry to the DAW market with something of a hybrid Cubase/Live approach is a big deal, we all want it to be good and I for one will try it and watch its development with interest whilst doing 'projects' with Live and Cubase.

Exactly

Cheers,

Tom

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:04 pm

ThomasHelzle wrote:Yesterday I checked out different subhosts to see how I can work around the midi limitations.

Shhhht! We're just finishing the next beta milestone over here at the lab and among other things, it includes our arpeggiator and also deals with the midi output of VSTs. There won't be extensive routing options between tracks etc. for this in version 1.0, as it just passes the note output on to the next device, but obviously there are already a lot of nice ideas for upcoming versions in the drawer, just waiting to be implemented...

Cheers,
Dom

Redukt · Post by **Redukt** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:27 pm

Hi Dom, nice hearing from you again.

Good news about MIDI routing making progress - what about multiple audio outs of VSTs, anything planned for 1.0?

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:30 pm

dom@bitwig wrote:
ThomasHelzle wrote:Yesterday I checked out different subhosts to see how I can work around the midi limitations.
Shhhht! We're just finishing the next beta milestone over here at the lab and among other things, it includes our arpeggiator and also deals with the midi output of VSTs. There won't be extensive routing options between tracks etc. for this in version 1.0, as it just passes the note output on to the next device, but obviously there are already a lot of nice ideas for upcoming versions in the drawer, just waiting to be implemented...

Cheers,
Dom

Indeed

Cheers,

Tom

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:44 pm

Redukt wrote:Hi Dom, nice hearing from you again.

Good news about MIDI routing making progress - what about multiple audio outs of VSTs, anything planned for 1.0?

Nope, not for the initial release... but to me this is one of the most important things that are missing in the 1.0, so I doubt we will not implement it before 2.0.

Cheers,
Dom

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:49 pm

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Redukt · Post by **Redukt** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:54 pm

Thanks for the fast response, Dom, i really appreciate it.

Can't wait to try out this thing myself, apart from the audio outputs and fade handles i couldn't be more excited. I guess these things will be fixed soon after release, so it's really no dealbreaker for me.

I'm hoping for a nice christmas gift from BWS...

Cheers

Redukt · Post by **Redukt** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:18 pm

TheoM wrote:Lol. This is missing so much basic functionality.

Why do you guys interested in bitwig have any faith that even if essential features like crossfades vst midi routing, multi outs etc ARE implemented in version 1.5 or 2, that that would be I before 2016-2017 anyway? Their release history is the proof. Are you willing to wait three years for such basic features? Come on! Bitwig is a toy and could never be considered a master host.. Well, not for many of us anyway, I'm sure. Maybe only for those working with single out instruments and midi only. Lol. Let's go back to the stone ages and have our drum vsti all routes to one stereo output.

Hm, i've managed to make music in FL for years, starting with NO multiple outs, NO audio capability whatsoever, and (almost) zero MIDI implementation - although there were a lot of competitors who could handle this easily at the time.

I know, i know - "that was in the past, and BWS has to cater to TODAY'S NEEDS!!!" - I'm looking forward to its workflow and new ideas primarily to come up with loops, soundscapes and songs, so i'm really anticipating the release. If BWS hasn't ALL THE FEATURES that ALL THE OTHER DAWS have RIGHT FROM VERSION 1.0 then i'm fine with it. I can use FL Studio for some things, BWS for another and Reaper for another purpose altogether. Then i'll just wait and see what the 1.x updates deliver.

I guess over time BWS will have ALL of these features - then i can drop the other DAWs and be happy with using just one app for everything (finally)

Or BWS will fail miserably, then i'll just have to make music with the same tools i made music up until now. Worst case, right?

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:21 pm

TheoM wrote:Lol. This is missing so much basic functionality.

Why do you guys interested in bitwig have any faith that even if essential features like crossfades vst midi routing, multi outs etc ARE implemented in version 1.5 or 2, that that would be I before 2016-2017 anyway? Their release history is the proof. Are you willing to wait three years for such basic features? Come on! Bitwig is a toy and could never be considered a master host.. Well, not for many of us anyway, I'm sure. Maybe only for those working with single out instruments and midi only. Lol. Let's go back to the stone ages and have our drum vsti all routes to one stereo output.

On the other hand Theo you have to admit it has some features that are missing in many mature hosts today. For example the ability to run BOTH 32 and 64 bit VST's; even in their own processes so not to cripple the DAW should the VST fail.

Like you I am concerned about the length of time to delivery; but I respect the Bitwig team wanting it solid before release. One of my biggest complaints with Live is my constant beta testing for them. For that matter this seems true for every DAW I own.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:22 pm

Good points Redukt!

Happy Musiking!
dsan

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:26 pm

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ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:31 pm

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