PPG WaveGenerator For Mac And PC *Out Now*

[Sendy]

Dear world, please stop with the awesome synths already.

[ChiTown24]

kool for a standalone vst synth, definitely interested.

but can someone tell me if this will be able to export wavetables for use with the well known wavetable hardware ? because that is what would make this an insta-purchase for me.

He was asked this question on his facebook page some weeks ago. His answer was, that "it's not planned" and that "one first would have to know the file / wavetable format of the destination product".

Depending on the implementation a conversion of the wavetables could quite difficult or result in data loss and unsatisfactory results.

well, considering he developed the wavetable technology and/or the hardware in question, I'd say having knowledge of the wavetable format shouldn't be a problem. But if it's not planned, it's not planned, and I'm not up-to-date on his current standing with waldorf so maybe there's some politics involved...

as far as imperfections in going from computer to synth.. I can live with that.

This has nothing to do with the fact that he invented it since there are different approaches for creating wavetables available. For a proper conversion you have to know the data format (audio data, harmonics data or whatever), the internal data types and ranges, the file format and of course the type of engine (number of slots, slot size, phase handling or whether interpolation is used or not...). And some formats are not completely documented.

OK, but he's in a good position to find those things out if he wanted to..surely ? I'm referring here to the Waldorf Micro/Wave synths. {Wolfgang Palm, designer of original PPG technology and the resulting "Waldorf ASIC" used in the Microwave and Wave synthesizers.}

Hope dies last.

[blacktomcat666]

kool for a standalone vst synth, definitely interested.

but can someone tell me if this will be able to export wavetables for use with the well known wavetable hardware ? because that is what would make this an insta-purchase for me.

He was asked this question on his facebook page some weeks ago. His answer was, that "it's not planned" and that "one first would have to know the file / wavetable format of the destination product".

Depending on the implementation a conversion of the wavetables could quite difficult or result in data loss and unsatisfactory results.

well, considering he developed the wavetable technology and/or the hardware in question, I'd say having knowledge of the wavetable format shouldn't be a problem. But if it's not planned, it's not planned, and I'm not up-to-date on his current standing with waldorf so maybe there's some politics involved...

as far as imperfections in going from computer to synth.. I can live with that.

This has nothing to do with the fact that he invented it since there are different approaches for creating wavetables available. For a proper conversion you have to know the data format (audio data, harmonics data or whatever), the internal data types and ranges, the file format and of course the type of engine (number of slots, slot size, phase handling or whether interpolation is used or not...). And some formats are not completely documented.

OK, but he's in a good position to find those things out if he wanted to..surely ? I'm referring here to the Waldorf Micro/Wave synths. {Wolfgang Palm, designer of original PPG technology and the resulting "Waldorf ASIC" used in the Microwave and Wave synthesizers.}

Hope dies last.

Even if Mr. Palm adds an export feature: Creating an export for the Microwave from WaveGenerator would lead to the problem that one has to find a way to compress 256 into the 61 user slots of the MW. It can be done, but this can have very disappointing results (for the same reason I didn't implement a conversion for Zebra or Animoog in my wavetable software).

[ChiTown24]

Even if Mr. Palm adds an export feature: Creating an export for the Microwave from WaveGenerator would lead to the problem that one has to find a way to compress 256 into the 61 user slots of the MW. It can be done, but this can have very disappointing results (for the same reason I didn't implement a conversion for Zebra or Animoog in my wavetable software).

Converting/Compressing 256 into 61 is one way of approaching the problem, the other way {I'd imagine} is to simply start off with the same limitations as the destination format. Being who he is, isn't he in a great if not the best position to know or find out the requisite details for the waldorf wavetable hardware... though as I said earlier I have no idea about any 'political' or 'professional' reasons that might not work. In terms of technicality it seems like it should be pretty trivial, if the desire was there.

[Shabdahbriah]

kool for a standalone vst synth, definitely interested.

but can someone tell me if this will be able to export wavetables for use with the well known wavetable hardware ? because that is what would make this an insta-purchase for me.

He was asked this question on his facebook page some weeks ago. His answer was, that "it's not planned" and that "one first would have to know the file / wavetable format of the destination product".

Depending on the implementation a conversion of the wavetables could quite difficult or result in data loss and unsatisfactory results.

well, considering he developed the wavetable technology and/or the hardware in question, I'd say having knowledge of the wavetable format shouldn't be a problem. But if it's not planned, it's not planned, and I'm not up-to-date on his current standing with waldorf so maybe there's some politics involved...

as far as imperfections in going from computer to synth.. I can live with that.

This has nothing to do with the fact that he invented it since there are different approaches for creating wavetables available. For a proper conversion you have to know the data format (audio data, harmonics data or whatever), the internal data types and ranges, the file format and of course the type of engine (number of slots, slot size, phase handling or whether interpolation is used or not...). And some formats are not completely documented.

OK, but he's in a good position to find those things out if he wanted to..surely ? I'm referring here to the Waldorf Micro/Wave synths. {Wolfgang Palm, designer of original PPG technology and the resulting "Waldorf ASIC" used in the Microwave and Wave synthesizers.}

Hope dies last.

Even if Mr. Palm adds an export feature: Creating an export for the Microwave from WaveGenerator would lead to the problem that one has to find a way to compress 256 into the 61 user slots of the MW. It can be done, but this can have very disappointing results (for the same reason I didn't implement a conversion for Zebra or Animoog in my wavetable software).

Indeed. I think Mr Palm was pretty clear that the (potentially diappointing) "results" of conversion, addressed the simple facts pertaining to the rather general (non Waldorf specific) question: "... wavetables for use with the well known wavetable hardware (?)", given there are numerous Waldorf and non-waldorf implimentations. The End.

You should better ask Wolfgang Palm if you want to know that. My guess is - no, this will be a literal conversion of iOS synth to PC/Mac.

ya, I'm guessing no as well. Even a .wav export would be nice

single cycle wav export could be interesting, if the user can specify sample length

Indeed.

[ChiTown24]

Even if Mr. Palm adds an export feature: Creating an export for the Microwave from WaveGenerator would lead to the problem that one has to find a way to compress 256 into the 61 user slots of the MW. It can be done, but this can have very disappointing results (for the same reason I didn't implement a conversion for Zebra or Animoog in my wavetable software).

Indeed. I think Mr Palm was pretty clear that the (potentially diappointing) "results" of conversion, addressed the simple facts pertaining to the rather general (non Waldorf specific) question: "... wavetables for use with the well known wavetable hardware (?)", given there are numerous Waldorf and non-waldorf implimentations. The End.

the end ? hehe, I'm not sure bluntly stifling feature-request discussion falls under your remit as a moderator... but I could be wrong
I guess you missed the post where I clarified I was referring to the waldorf micro/wave synths.

At any rate, as I stated in my previous post, as long as the feature-request is framed in terms of 'conversion' or 'compression' the response might be luke warm for the reasons stated {disappointing results}. But frame the feature-request in terms of creating wavetables from the start with the same parameters as the destination format, and it may hold more promise. THE BEGINNING. { }

[blacktomcat666]

Converting/Compressing 256 into 61 is one way of approaching the problem, the other way {I'd imagine} is to simply start off with the same limitations as the destination format.

In this case I think it would be more useful to have a special editor than "shorten" features of WaveGenerator as synthesizer (which is the focus) only to use it as wavetable editor for another company's products (which sadly seems to be completely uninterested in offering an own and "official" editor software).

[arakula]

In terms of technicality it seems like it should be pretty trivial, if the desire was there.

How much would it be worth to you?

[ChiTown24]

In terms of technicality it seems like it should be pretty trivial, if the desire was there.

How much would it be worth to you?

hi arakula,
thanks for your interest.

anyway just to qualify that statement, lest it be accidentally taken out of context, that was stated with respect Wolfgang Palm who is in a unique position as the inventor of the format in question, and having had a hand in the destination hardware in question {Waldorf micro/wave/xt}, and also being in a unique position to find out any format parameters for the hardware that he might not already know. Plus the fact he seems to have so much of the groundwork already complete with this WaveGenerator app.

Without that context, I would not like it to seem like I'm saying it's trivial for any dev to code such an editor from scratch without the unique advantages Wolfgang possesses for this task. If it is or not, I'm not inclined to speculate.

As for what it's worth, well, if it were wolfgang simply adding thins functionality to WaveGenerator I wouldn't expect it to add much more expense if any.

as for someone else coding a dedicated editor, which is what you're asking I guess, well I suppose it would depend on the feature set of the editor. would it be bare bones or would it allow librarian tasks, even patch editing tasks, many ways of creating and editing wavetables (like image import etc), sophisticated mutations & merging of pre-existing waves etc, and ultimately would it know all the parameters for the format {which, I don't know, might be no small feat to reverse engineer if it's even possible at all?} ... I could see myself spending anywhere from 10euro at the basic level with a not-so-perfect command of the format to 50+ euro at the sophisticated level with a perfect or at least nigh-on perfect command of the format. OSX compatible... I haven't put much thought into what a dedicated editor by a third party would be worth to me, this is the best I can come up with 'on the hop'. It would probably be best to gauge interest in the yahoo micro/wave/xt group. I can't imagine anyone who owns this hardware not wanting such a thing.


@blacktomcat well at this stage I guess it becomes subjective whether such a feature in WaveGenerator is useful or not. The resistance at first was technical, I think we're past that now. And in the snippets of Wolfgang quotes that have been posted here he only seems apprehensive about conversion/compression results. Framed in a different way {no conversion}, it may be a more optimistic response. Certainly there's nothing in his quotes to suggest he has a problem coding something that Waldorf 'should' be doing themselves... or he'd say so before even considering the conversion results, imo.

[PietW.]

Microwave at only half cycle is always stored, and the second half mirror along two axes to obtain the full waveform.
So i think it will not work to export the Wavetables from the PPG Wave Generator

[Buka]

now we know why Largo and PPG Wave 3.v havent got wavetable generation!

this could be a very nice app...

[nutekk]

Stefan Tripper plays the new PPG WaveGenerator VST for PC. All sounds are WaveGenerator except for drums.

[MillerSam]

@ Buka

Largo and PPG v3.0 has nothing to do with Mister Palm.

Mister Palm is a independent company for Apps and Plugins

Waldorf Music with Largo, PPG v3.0 is also an another company. Palm has left Waldorf Music a lot of years.

So what Waldorf does with the PPG v.3.0 is not the problem of Mister Palm. If they want to add import for wavetable generation, they can do this but must program it because Palm has his own wavetable generator

[DocT]

I'd like to add that the plugin is worth the price for the excellent factory presets from Nutekk Labs alone

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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