KVR Audio

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:05 pm

Tronam wrote:Though not specifically dongle related, Urs has been pretty open about the fact that he gets a good number of product sales each month from folks who were using pirated versions of his products that stopped working due to his timebomb code.

Yet he doesn't use iLok...

Tronam wrote:Anyone who can afford to buy a modern computer can afford to buy software.

Could you provide the statistics for that? Anyone who has a computer automatically has enough disposable income to buy software? I seriously doubt that as a hard and fast 'fact', and I'm sure you have nothing to back it up. Please prove me wrong if you do.

Tronam wrote:I'm not entirely convinced of the black & white conclusion that all people who pirate would never buy it in the first place.

Well first of all, no one other than you is claiming that it's "black and white", and secondly, "I'm not entirely convinced" is hardly evidence of anything.

Tronam wrote:I think it often just comes down to basic human psychology: the motivation to buy something drops precipitously once it has already been acquired..

Could you quote your sources on that? I'm not entirely convinced that you wrote that without reference to any standard works of psychology or any hard data.

Tronam wrote:People will prioritize their money for the things they don't have or can't easily get, which is probably hardware in most cases.

"Probably"? How about some facts, or verifiable data, or long term studies, or market analyses, etc.? All of the weasel words in your post make anything you have said meaningless in terms of valid argument.

xNiMiNx · Post by **xNiMiNx** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:07 pm

Tronam wrote:Anyone who can afford to buy a modern computer can afford to buy software, so I'm not entirely convinced of the black & white conclusion that all people who pirate would never buy it in the first place.

Pirating, dongles, and statistics aside, i think your statement is false. Anyone? Really? Do you know how long some people save money to build a modern system? I know people first hand who end up going through multiple 'build wish lists', because by the time they can finally afford the complete system, half the products arent for sale anymore.

Can most people who have a modern system afford software? Sure. As for 'anyone', I highly doubt it.

Tronam · Post by **Tronam** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:12 pm

xNiMiNx wrote:
Tronam wrote:Anyone who can afford to buy a modern computer can afford to buy software, so I'm not entirely convinced of the black & white conclusion that all people who pirate would never buy it in the first place.
Pirating, dongles, and statistics aside, i think your statement is false. Anyone? Really? Do you know how long some people save money to build a modern system? I know people first hand who end up going through multiple 'build wish lists', because by the time they can finally afford the complete system, half the products arent for sale anymore.

Can most people who have a modern system afford software? Sure. As for 'anyone', I highly doubt it.

If you can budget for hardware, you can budget for software as well.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:18 pm

Tronam wrote:If you can budget for hardware, you can budget for software as well.

Sure, everyone on the planet has this huge bucket of money that they can take from and buy anything they want at any time...

Tronam · Post by **Tronam** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:37 pm

robojam wrote:
Tronam wrote:If you can budget for hardware, you can budget for software as well.
Sure, everyone on the planet has this huge bucket of money that they can take from and buy anything they want at any time...

Excellent use of hyperbole and completely missing the point. Ever heard of saving up your money little by little over time to buy something you want? I don't think it's too farfetched to assume that the majority of people in this forum live in an industrialized area somewhere, have a job of some kind, bought a computer, pay for electricity and an internet connection. I have very little sympathy for people who can somehow afford hardware, but then can't seem to figure out how to budget for software and still think they're entitled to have access to everything without paying for it.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:43 pm

But who cares?

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:56 pm

robojam wrote:
Tronam wrote:If you can budget for hardware, you can budget for software as well.
Sure, everyone on the planet has this huge bucket of money that they can take from and buy anything they want at any time...

If we are talking about 5-year olds - that could be difficult.
At that age they have very little ability to wait for anything - attention, or getting things when in the store - and such.
- mom, I want an icecream

But becoming teenager - you can expect a little more.
You probably have some monthly allowance from parent to have some money to spend on things. But then you could also having a job now and then to get some extra resources - to go out with friends or invest a little in things you are interested in.

At first you are probably not able to save so much, immediate spending most of it - but that will come as you grow up.

Until moving to your own apartment - you should have learnt these basic facts of life. If parent influence and school education fail in doing this - that is sad.

So if talking to adults that have grown up - they should be able to plan and save up.

- I want this, but have no money right now
- starting to create excuses to themselves why they need this right now
- so, I steal it now instead
- and I will buy it when I grow up one day, maybe....

That is a childs reaction, really. Cannot wait and look forward to anything.
And they really miss the extra value that comes with saving for something and then is able to buy it.

Instant gratification - that is childrens perspective.

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:15 pm

lfm wrote:That is a childs reaction, really. Cannot wait and look forward to anything.
Instant gratification - that is childrens perspective.

That's pretty much the principle that the entire electronics age is based upon. More more more now now now.

-Sam

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:21 pm

masterhiggins wrote:
lfm wrote:That is a childs reaction, really. Cannot wait and look forward to anything.
Instant gratification - that is childrens perspective.
That's pretty much the principle that the entire electronics age is based upon. More more more now now now.

-Sam

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:26 pm

Tronam wrote:Excellent use of hyperbole and completely missing the point.

I guess you're new to sarcasm? As for missing the point - no, I didn't.

Tronam wrote:Ever heard of saving up your money little by little over time to buy something you want?.

Yes. Yes I have. Ever heard of limited resources? Recession? Household finance priorities?

Tronam wrote:I don't think it's too farfetched to assume that the majority of people in this forum live in an industrialized area somewhere, have a job of some kind, bought a computer, pay for electricity and an internet connection.

More weasel words rather than facts. There are certainly those who would disagree with you that all of those are true, and have posted to the effect that one or more of the above are not true. Even if they were all true, they do not guarantee disposable income.

Tronam wrote:I have very little sympathy for people who can somehow afford hardware, but then can't seem to figure out how to budget for software and still think they're entitled to have access to everything without paying for it.

I don't even know where to begin with that convoluted mess.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:45 pm

The new WR...

Aubrey Lamont · Post by **Aubrey Lamont** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:48 pm

robojam wrote:
Tronam wrote:I don't think it's too farfetched to assume that the majority of people in this forum live in an industrialized area somewhere, have a job of some kind, bought a computer, pay for electricity and an internet connection.
More weasel words rather than facts. There are certainly those who would disagree with you that all of those are true, and have posted to the effect that one or more of the above are not true. Even if they were all true, they do not guarantee disposable income.

Not agreeing or disagreeing--just curious: which part of his assumption seems farfetched?

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:12 pm

solidtrax wrote:
robojam wrote:Same here with various plugs. I hate the thought of the additional expense, and a hardware dependency that I don't need.

I wish these companies would provide an alternative for people who don't really want to go this route.
As soon as they provide an alternative, it's probably cracked within days. They don't chose for ilok because they think ilok is amazing and it's nice bonus, they do it because they want to protect their efforts so that people can not grab an illegal copy from anywhere on the web.

Exactly.
And if they thought the risk was not worth losing sales from the anti ilok group, they sure would change. no?
rsp

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:21 pm

Here's an interesting topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_music

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:24 pm

Aubrey Lamont wrote:
robojam wrote:
Tronam wrote:I don't think it's too farfetched to assume that the majority of people in this forum live in an industrialized area somewhere, have a job of some kind, bought a computer, pay for electricity and an internet connection.
More weasel words rather than facts. There are certainly those who would disagree with you that all of those are true, and have posted to the effect that one or more of the above are not true. Even if they were all true, they do not guarantee disposable income.
Not agreeing or disagreeing--just curious: which part of his assumption seems farfetched?

None of it seems farfetched. I wasn't implying that, just that he is not presenting facts, but prefixing everything with weasel words so that nothing is actually being presenting as a concrete argument but more as "It seems", "I think", etc.

If we're discussing something without any facts, figures, references, etc., then we're not really getting anywhere in terms of getting a clear picture; and it certainly doesn't help to throw in extra levels of vagueness.

Yet another plugin that I won't buy because it needs iLok...