I would say "I don't know", and I don't think you do either.zvenx wrote:Exactly.
And if they thought the risk was not worth losing sales from the anti ilok group, they sure would change. no?
rsp
Why start a thread to whine about it? I dont understand it. There's so much other plugins out there to chose from.Woody Aki wrote:God, I'm really sick of this...
TC Electronic LM2 - I wanted this so bad. Yet I'm no iLok fan.
Obviously I'm looking for alternatives from other devs, but chances are none of them could hold a light to the LM2, unless you know of a metering plugin that I might have overlooked.
Well I'm evidence that you're wrong. I had enough money for a computer last year, i work from home as a freelance graphic designer, and am also a gigging musician. I was never that busy, but now I'm less busy and there are many things I can't afford to buy. And am struggling to pay the ISP bill, and putting off going to the doctor. And dentist. And I've avoided buying heaps of software, like Satin which I would have liked to get on it's intro price.Tronam wrote:If you can budget for hardware, you can budget for software as well.
Woody Aki wrote:Obviously I'm looking for alternatives from other devs, but chances are none of them could hold a light to the LM2, unless you know of a metering plugin that I might have overlooked.
That was exactly the point I was trying to make. I know of quite a few people in the same boat as you because of what they have posted here, but didn't want to call out anyone by name.someone called simon wrote:Well I'm evidence that you're wrong. I had enough money for a computer last year, i work from home as a freelance graphic designer, and am also a gigging musician. I was never that busy, but now I'm less busy and there are many things I can't afford to buy. And am struggling to pay the ISP bill, and putting off going to the doctor. And dentist. And I've avoided buying heaps of software, like Satin which I would have liked to get on it's intro price.Tronam wrote:If you can budget for hardware, you can budget for software as well.
Sure many people who've bought a computer can buy more software for it. But it's ridiculous to assert that if you can budget for something, you can also budget for some more. There's a lot of priorities for people's dollars these days. If you don't have any issues with that stuff, good for you, but don't assume its the same for everyone else.
Of course, I'm in that camp myself, but certain questions often come to mind in threads like these. Is having limited resources a valid justification for software piracy? If someone can't immediately afford a DAW or plugin, is stealing instead of saving up for it ok or justifiable? How strong is the motivation to buy that product once it's already acquired? If finances are limited and there's a choice between buying a hardware controller or the software already working on their computer, how likely is it for them to prioritize the software? A lot of what-ifs and I suppose our conclusions will vary greatly depending on our subjective cynicism. You already know my opinions on them, but feel free to requote them again as though it's some kind of revelation that every sentence not redundantly preceded with "in my opinion" is still an opinion.robojam wrote: Yes. Yes I have. Ever heard of limited resources? Recession? Household finance priorities?
There are very few guarantees in life, but if audio software falls into the realm of "disposable income", then it's non-essential to their livelihood and can wait until their income allows for it. There's plenty of freeware software available to tide them over in the meantime. To the plugin developers though, sales of their products very often *are* essential to their livelihood and is why I'm typically so skeptical of piracy apologists.robojam wrote: Even if they were all true, they do not guarantee disposable income.
It's absolutely speculative and whether the analyses is real or meaningful is up to you to decide. Very few vendors share sales statistics on this save for the supposed significant drop in sales that Steinberg claimed after SX3 was hacked and more open vendors like U-he in threads like this one where he breaks down the numbers with unprecedented honesty. Apparently those buyers managed to find some disposable income after all. You were actually the first person to respond to that thread:robojam wrote:I would say "I don't know", and I don't think you do either.zvenx wrote:Exactly.
And if they thought the risk was not worth losing sales from the anti ilok group, they sure would change. no?
rsp
Again, it's speculative rather than based on any real or meaningful analyses.
For once we agree 100%.robojam wrote:Sep 26th, 2013: None of this surprises me really, and I'm sure it doesn't surprise you. It's a shame that there is still the pervasive attitude that software is something that it's OK to steal - you just need to look here occasionally to see how often people are very open about their use of cracks, and I suspect there are many more here who hide their use of cracks.
How dare he base inferences off of reasonable assumptions!robojam wrote:None of it seems farfetched. I wasn't implying that, just that he is not presenting facts, but prefixing everything with weasel words so that nothing is actually being presenting as a concrete argument but more as "It seems", "I think", etc.Aubrey Lamont wrote:Not agreeing or disagreeing--just curious: which part of his assumption seems farfetched?robojam wrote:More weasel words rather than facts. There are certainly those who would disagree with you that all of those are true, and have posted to the effect that one or more of the above are not true. Even if they were all true, they do not guarantee disposable income.Tronam wrote:I don't think it's too farfetched to assume that the majority of people in this forum live in an industrialized area somewhere, have a job of some kind, bought a computer, pay for electricity and an internet connection.
If we're discussing something without any facts, figures, references, etc., then we're not really getting anywhere in terms of getting a clear picture; and it certainly doesn't help to throw in extra levels of vagueness.
Well legal documents are pretty much the opposite (I have had to read a lot of them at work). It's probably what makes me so sensitive to lack of completeness or specifics.Aubrey Lamont wrote:How dare he base inferences off of reasonable assumptions!robojam wrote:None of it seems farfetched. I wasn't implying that, just that he is not presenting facts, but prefixing everything with weasel words so that nothing is actually being presenting as a concrete argument but more as "It seems", "I think", etc.Aubrey Lamont wrote:Not agreeing or disagreeing--just curious: which part of his assumption seems farfetched?robojam wrote:More weasel words rather than facts. There are certainly those who would disagree with you that all of those are true, and have posted to the effect that one or more of the above are not true. Even if they were all true, they do not guarantee disposable income.Tronam wrote:I don't think it's too farfetched to assume that the majority of people in this forum live in an industrialized area somewhere, have a job of some kind, bought a computer, pay for electricity and an internet connection.
If we're discussing something without any facts, figures, references, etc., then we're not really getting anywhere in terms of getting a clear picture; and it certainly doesn't help to throw in extra levels of vagueness.
Just busting your chops, mate.
If you are put off by what you refer to as "weasel words" (strictly speaking, some of his were, and some weren't), I recommend you never read a legal document, legislation, etc. It will give you a migraine.
Ah, you probably read contracts. Yes, those will be extremely thorough if done correctly. Any ambiguity is potential for litigation.robojam wrote: Well legal documents are pretty much the opposite (I have had to read a lot of them at work). It's probably what makes me so sensitive to lack of completeness or specifics.
+1 LikeNeon Breath wrote:Is this forum a customer service for complaints? Not happy, contact TC Electronics directly. End of the story. What can people do to sooth your pain? I don't get it.
I don't know if there is a language barrier here - and "budget for" means something else than I think it does.someone called simon wrote:Well I'm evidence that you're wrong. I had enough money for a computer last year, i work from home as a freelance graphic designer, and am also a gigging musician. I was never that busy, but now I'm less busy and there are many things I can't afford to buy. And am struggling to pay the ISP bill, and putting off going to the doctor. And dentist. And I've avoided buying heaps of software, like Satin which I would have liked to get on it's intro price.Tronam wrote:If you can budget for hardware, you can budget for software as well.
Sure many people who've bought a computer can buy more software for it. But it's ridiculous to assert that if you can budget for something, you can also budget for some more. There's a lot of priorities for people's dollars these days. If you don't have any issues with that stuff, good for you, but don't assume its the same for everyone else.
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