Piano libraries are too fake (opinion)

[BertKoor]

it's still very wide-spread and completely falls apart when summed in mono.

Easy to solve: don't collapse but take just the L or R channel

[tcollins]

it's still very wide-spread and completely falls apart when summed in mono.

Easy to solve: don't collapse but take just the L or R channel

You might consider White Grand by Sampletekk. There is something about it that just works well in a mix, and it sounds great in mono through a sound system. Not phasey at all. I have the White Grand Jr. which is only $49.

[bigcat1969]

As I've been messing about with my little freebie piano, wondering if the world needed yet another piano instrument, I started looking at all the virtual pianos I have and what was done to make them sound 'better'. I tried copying many of the settings, especially of the various Kontakt pianos. No matter what I tried it ultimately made the piano sound what I called more 'synthy'. Finally I just stripped everything away and let the samples stand or fall on their own. Its actually kind of fun to strip everything from a kontakt piano, save it as a variant and just listen to the samples playing back. Sometimes it really sounds better that way.
I live in an old building with a piano on every floor and sometimes its just interesting to wander up to one and play a few notes and feel and hear the difference after messing with the virtual ones.

[kelvyn]

Completely agree with the OP that it's hard to find a certain kind of piano that doesn't either sound like Hollywood or a Yamaha CP70. I don't get the love for Alicia's Keys from NI as I feel it sounds pretty weedy in the mids. But hey! Different strokes... Funnily enough I also think the upright from Imperfect Samples does a pretty good job as does the Old Black Grand from Acoustic Samples. But we are on an upward curve as far as technology and development goes, so I'm sure it's only a matter of time that someone comes out with the ultimate soft piano.

[electro]

I agree with OP, and that's why I don't use any piano sample libraries at all. Pianoteq 4 Pro here deals with anything I need regarding piano, harpsichord, clavinet, vibes, rhodes, wurly, chromatic percussion, etc. It is a splendidly flexible and great sounding tool, and its responsiveness to touch is unmatched by sample libraries. It can be as imperfect as you want it to be.

I can't find a single shortcoming with Pianoteq version 4. I think its the last stop for Acoustic Piano ITB.

[hephaestussounds]

IMO
A sampled piano doesn't produce the harmonics. And this may be one of the many reasons why a sampled piano sounds more "fake" and very tight.

-Francesco-

[pljones]

Unfortunately the lack of correct harmonics is sometimes addressed in VSTs with synthetic ones... So far, I've not heard a convincing attempt. I, like others, prefer the simpler attempts - not aiming too high and hence achieving what they set out to. (Another pimping: like DSmolken's double bass, for example .)

[backsliders]

Taking only one channel is always an option, I just wish there was a way without making sacrifices.

That's a good point about the harmonics and sympathetic resonance. Perhaps a well thought out sample/synthetic hybrid piano would be in order.

I guess, for now, I'm still stuck with mikeing up someone else's and doing everything in one shot.

[BBFG#]

My biggest problem with sampled pianos are with the velocity curve. Most of them seem to have gaps in the softer keying and for playing a full range of dynamics I find they all have these 'holes'.

I feel it to be true, that the Alicia Keys piano is better at this than the rest of the NI pianos, but I was disapponted because I somehow thought it would be a Yamaha C6 or C7 and to my ears I swear its a mass marketed no name Spinet piano. So just like the rest of their pianos, it's only good for specific effects. But almost decent enough to practice with. None of them are pianos I could ever recommend to a piano player as something that can replace a real instrument.

Likewise on the ones I picked up this last month, Addictive Keys, again, if you just need a few strikes in a certain velocity range on a particular track, you're most likely going to love it, but as for the great piano I'm always hoping to find (and without needing a dongle) I find I'm still searching for one.

[EvilDragon]

I think Alicia's Keys is a C3. Don't quote me on that.

[BBFG#]

I think Alicia's Keys is a C3. Don't quote me on that.

I don't know now either, but it sounds just like a spinet piano you buy in the bargain section of the piano store.

[Lode_Runner]

My biggest problem with sampled pianos are with the velocity curve. Most of them seem to have gaps in the softer keying and for playing a full range of dynamics I find they all have these 'holes'.

I feel it to be true, that the Alicia Keys piano is better at this than the rest of the NI pianos, but I was disapponted because I somehow thought it would be a Yamaha C6 or C7 and to my ears I swear its a mass marketed no name Spinet piano. So just like the rest of their pianos, it's only good for specific effects. But almost decent enough to practice with. None of them are pianos I could ever recommend to a piano player as something that can replace a real instrument.

Likewise on the ones I picked up this last month, Addictive Keys, again, if you just need a few strikes in a certain velocity range on a particular track, you're most likely going to love it, but as for the great piano I'm always hoping to find (and without needing a dongle) I find I'm still searching for one.

Velocity layering is my biggest problem with them as well. I have one library that plays soft notes really well, but it doesn't do harder notes. Others are lacking the soft notes altogether, no matter how much I tweak the velocity curve they're just not there. Yet others jump noticeably between layers (eg where there's only 8 layers).

I've often thought that pianos should be sampled with a machine striking the keys at a range of consistent velocities as I do not believe that most people have enough control over their fingers that they are able to hit 16+ distinct, evenly spaced velocities, let alone do so consistently across 88 keys. If there are enough velocity layers, the too perfectly balanced sound introduced by a machine wouldn't be an issue, it would just let the pianist be able to really get the right response to their touch, and the idiosyncrasies of the sampled piano really shine through (in other words cutting out all the false imperfections introduced through the sampling process).

That said the two that I've tried that I feel manage the velocity layering to a level that is actually quite playable are Alicia's Keys and Orange Tree Samples Evolution Rosewood. Rosewood is now my go to for practice. Alicia's Keys is a Yamaha C3 Neo BTW. There are only 3 in existence apparently (which makes me wonder if they're really that good why there wouldn't be more). Alicia Keys owns one, which was sampled, hence the name.

[hephaestussounds]

I think, personally, that a mono-sampled piano sounds closer but lacks in presence.
Stereo-sampling gives it a better strenght.

[CableChannel]

Interesting thread. And no fundamentalistic fights yet I like that.

[Lode_Runner]

Interesting thread. And no fundamentalistic fights yet I like that.

We can't have that. I'll get the ball rolling!

Pianoteq may be better for playing but it still sounds too synthetic/plastic...