The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[pdxindy]

I suppose you've got a point, but they do need a good amount of time for people to find the bugs and report them, so I imagine that's a big factor.

Sure... I've just done enough beta testing to have seen quite a variety of results, and even as a beta tester it is not easy to predict accurately.

[Bronto Scorpio]

I suppose you've got a point, but they do need a good amount of time for people to find the bugs and report them, so I imagine that's a big factor.

Sure... I've just done enough beta testing to have seen quite a variety of results, and even as a beta tester it is not easy to predict accurately.

Yep!
There can always be that one annoying bug that appears a few days before the release that completely screws everything up.

Cheers
Dennis

[ThomasHelzle]

I suppose you've got a point, but they do need a good amount of time for people to find the bugs and report them, so I imagine that's a big factor.

Sure... I've just done enough beta testing to have seen quite a variety of results, and even as a beta tester it is not easy to predict accurately.

It's not even easy for the developer himself
You can hit a roadblock at any point, something you expected to take half an hour can suddenly keep you banging your head against for weeks.
It doesn't matter one bit how experienced you are - the only difference there is, that if you are experienced, you know that you will be unable to tell how long it will take

Cheers,

Tom

[Tronam]

...But my total favourite: Step MOD, an up-to-16-Steps Sequencer where each step can modify anything you put in it's FX Slot in the usual intuitive graphical way. It also reacts to the general Shuffle settings on demand, so this is awesome for all kinds of rhythmic modulation.
But it gets even better: you can modulate each steps value with for instance LFOs or other StepMODs or Automation etc. and that opens up a huge wealth of generative options. I totally love it
And you can modulate the speed too...



(As always, rightclick "load image" or however it's called in your browser to see it 1:1)

There are many other fixes and improvements but these are the most interesting ones for my taste

Cheers,

Tom

Thanks again Thomas for all your constructive contributions to the thread. You repeatedly help bring it back to earth. Interestingly, these latest screenshots actually make me think more of Renoise than Live anymore. I really like the compact, dark toned design a lot.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[ThomasHelzle]

...But my total favourite: Step MOD, an up-to-16-Steps Sequencer where each step can modify anything you put in it's FX Slot in the usual intuitive graphical way. It also reacts to the general Shuffle settings on demand, so this is awesome for all kinds of rhythmic modulation.
But it gets even better: you can modulate each steps value with for instance LFOs or other StepMODs or Automation etc. and that opens up a huge wealth of generative options. I totally love it
And you can modulate the speed too...



(As always, rightclick "load image" or however it's called in your browser to see it 1:1)

There are many other fixes and improvements but these are the most interesting ones for my taste

Cheers,

Tom

Thanks again Thomas for all your constructive contributions to the thread. You repeatedly help bring it back to earth. Interestingly, these latest screenshots actually make me think more of Renoise than Live anymore. I really like the compact, dark toned design a lot.

I try

And yeah, same here. The GUI was what did catch my eye on the first web images and it still is exactly as perfect for me now that I can actually use it.
There is a deep understanding on how the brain and human reception works in this software.
In that screenshot, the slightly greenish background colour indicates that the sampler is nested inside the Step-MOD device. A tiny detail, but after a short while you know immediately what is what just by a quick glance.
When you use modulation, per-Note-modulation is highlighted blue-green and global modulation is highlighted in cyanish blue. No text or explanation needed, after using it two times you just grok it.
At least I do - I'm very visual... (no surprise there I guess )

I'm really curious how the wider reception will be after the release.
But if people really allow themselves to embrace its way of working it could become a very creative environment for many, and a good extension to maybe a more classical DAW like S1, Logic, Cubase or ProTools.
Similar to Live, but different enough to make it count and I'm sure that will even deepen over time.

Good stuff

Cheers,

Tom

[pdxindy]

...But my total favourite: Step MOD, an up-to-16-Steps Sequencer where each step can modify anything you put in it's FX Slot in the usual intuitive graphical way. It also reacts to the general Shuffle settings on demand, so this is awesome for all kinds of rhythmic modulation.
But it gets even better: you can modulate each steps value with for instance LFOs or other StepMODs or Automation etc. and that opens up a huge wealth of generative options. I totally love it
And you can modulate the speed too...



(As always, rightclick "load image" or however it's called in your browser to see it 1:1)

There are many other fixes and improvements but these are the most interesting ones for my taste

Cheers,

Tom

Thanks again Thomas for all your constructive contributions to the thread. You repeatedly help bring it back to earth. Interestingly, these latest screenshots actually make me think more of Renoise than Live anymore. I really like the compact, dark toned design a lot.

I try

And yeah, same here. The GUI was what did catch my eye on the first web images and it still is exactly as perfect for me now that I can actually use it.
There is a deep understanding on how the brain and human reception works in this software.
In that screenshot, the slightly greenish background colour indicates that the sampler is nested inside the Step-MOD device. A tiny detail, but after a short while you know immediately what is what just by a quick glance.
When you use modulation, per-Note-modulation is highlighted blue-green and global modulation is highlighted in cyanish blue. No text or explanation needed, after using it two times you just grok it.
At least I do - I'm very visual... (no surprise there I guess )

I'm really curious how the wider reception will be after the release.
But if people really allow themselves to embrace its way of working it could become a very creative environment for many, and a good extension to maybe a more classical DAW like S1, Logic, Cubase or ProTools.
Similar to Live, but different enough to make it count and I'm sure that will even deepen over time.

Good stuff

Cheers,

Tom

From that image, it appears that the LFO is the parent device with the StepMod nested inside it and the Sampler nested inside the StepMOD. But really the Sampler is the parent device being modulated by the StepMOD which is itself modulated by the LFO?

If I am understanding how it is structured, then it seems backwards. The Sampler should have the StepMOD nested and the StepMOD have the LFO nested.

[ThomasHelzle]

From that image, it appears that the LFO is the parent device with the StepMod nested inside it and the Sampler nested inside the StepMOD. But really the Sampler is the parent device being modulated by the StepMOD which is itself modulated by the LFO?

If I am understanding how it is structured, then it seems backwards. The Sampler should have the StepMOD nested and the StepMOD have the LFO nested.

Yeah, that may seem so, but if you ever worked with a modular, node based system, then you may know that there is a certain flow to data in such a structure. The modulation data "flows" to your synth, so for instance in Usine, you would have the modulation source on the left and then wire it to the synth on the right.
Most of the time a left to right approach is used with inputs on the left and outputs on the right, I guess simply because most western written languages are left to right too. Sometimes there is a top-down approach, for instance in Bidule, but on horizontal screens, I like left to right best.

I use a lot of nodal systems in 3D-graphics and there it always works like that as well, so I find it totally normal

But I know what you mean and there are some structural questions that come up if you project a node based modular system into such a "flat" view as in the device chain. Some things make more sense if you imagine them as nodes being wired together before your inner eye. Or maybe it's just like that for me since I work so much with nodes in all kinds of software that it became second nature.

In Bitwig you could also says that for a module to "see" another, it has to be nested below it, or "downstream" or simply to the right.
The LFO only "sees" the parameters of modules nested inside of it, only they can be modulated.
This way, you can branch into as many streams as you need after the LFO and are able to reach them all.
The other way around, it would be more like "local" modulators that only work on the upstream devices.

Hm, that got a bit complicated - does it make sense?

I can only say that IMO it's the best flat representation of a modular system I've ever seen.

Cheers,

Tom

[pdxindy]

From that image, it appears that the LFO is the parent device with the StepMod nested inside it and the Sampler nested inside the StepMOD. But really the Sampler is the parent device being modulated by the StepMOD which is itself modulated by the LFO?

If I am understanding how it is structured, then it seems backwards. The Sampler should have the StepMOD nested and the StepMOD have the LFO nested.

Yeah, that may seem so, but if you ever worked with a modular, node based system, then you may know that there is a certain flow to data in such a structure. The modulation data "flows" to your synth, so for instance in Usine, you would have the modulation source on the left and then wire it to the synth on the right.
Most of the time a left to right approach is used with inputs on the left and outputs on the right, I guess simply because most western written languages are left to right too. Sometimes there is a top-down approach, for instance in Bidule, but on horizontal screens, I like left to right best.

I use a lot of nodal systems in 3D-graphics and there it always works like that as well, so I find it totally normal

But I know what you mean and there are some structural questions that come up if you project a node based modular system into such a "flat" view as in the device chain. Some things make more sense if you imagine them as nodes being wired together before your inner eye. Or maybe it's just like that for me since I work so much with nodes in all kinds of software that it became second nature.

In Bitwig you could also says that for a module to "see" another, it has to be nested below it, or "downstream" or simply to the right.
The LFO only "sees" the parameters of modules nested inside of it, only they can be modulated.
This way, you can branch into as many streams as you need after the LFO and are able to reach them all.
The other way around, it would be more like "local" modulators that only work on the upstream devices.

Hm, that got a bit complicated - does it make sense?

I can only say that IMO it's the best flat representation of a modular system I've ever seen.

Cheers,

Tom

Yeah, it makes sense... So if I want an LFO to modulate 2 synths, then the 2 synths would be in an instrument layer and that would be nested in the LFO...

I watched the modulations video again just now and it is really easy to add a new parent so it all looks just great.


I had another question about the Polysynth.

It has some dedicated modulators listed vertically on the left.

Velocity
Key
Timbre
Filter Env
Amp Env
Modwheel
AT

What if I want to use an expression pedal and/or breath controller? How would that work?

[DHR53]

Uh, can we change the headline on this so people don't think they actually "have" released the beta... I've been looking at this for too long... I mean all the way through the Live 9.1 beta. Which I actually "did" try.

[ThomasHelzle]

Yeah, it makes sense... So if I want an LFO to modulate 2 synths, then the 2 synths would be in an instrument layer and that would be nested in the LFO...

I watched the modulations video again just now and it is really easy to add a new parent so it all looks just great.


I had another question about the Polysynth.

It has some dedicated modulators listed vertically on the left.

Velocity
Key
Timbre
Filter Env
Amp Env
Modwheel
AT

What if I want to use an expression pedal and/or breath controller? How would that work?

Ah cool that it makes more sense now
Yeah, exactly. Or you could have one LFO in each "Arm"/Layer reaching down to all the effects in that Arm, but not backwards.

That whole nesting and un-nesting is supersimple IMO. Depending on where you come from it may take a moment to adjust, but well, that's the price to pay for the coolest modulation system on the planet

As for additional controllers: Any parameter of any device, internal or VST -> Rightclick -> Learn Control mapping. Then you get a green highlight and a small moving "I'm waiting" Icon until you move your controller. Done.

Cheers,

Tom

[Ogopogo]

Uh, can we change the headline on this so people don't think they actually "have" released the beta... I've been looking at this for too long... I mean all the way through the Live 9.1 beta. Which I actually "did" try.

It might be nice to cut this thread after page 65 when the first real info started coming and put it in its own thread with a new name such as "Bitwig Beta-Phase Info," so it will be easier to find for those interested and they can simply start reading it from start for the info. Right now if you are new to the thread you have no idea where all the info is buried so that makes it hard to read through it and get up to speed.

[Cyoon]

the cats are crucial to understand

[Ogopogo]

Of course, but there are plenty of cats beyond page 65.

[ThomasHelzle]

the cats are crucial to understand

You may be able to convince me that there is no spoon, but don't try to tell me there is no cats!

Cheers,

Tom