The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[ThomasHelzle]

Sry, my remember wasn't correct. Then it seems even worse. They even lose a method to aware crutial bug by checking over 30 pages bug report thread before the release

There is absolutely zero benefit in having a team of 20 or 100 public beta testers who don't report proper bugs (full steps to 100% reproducibility, crash logs). What's worse, though, is that more beta testers means it more likely the software ends up on some warez site prior to release.

If you remember what happened with D-16 and LuSH-101 beta: a warez leak delayed the release for years.

Peace,
Andy.

Good Points.

And you can be sure of one thing: No matter how many betatesters - there will be bugs in version 1.0.
That is a law of the universe.

Was Live 9.0 bugfree? No.
It was 4 years in the making because of the problematic version 8 release, because of M4L, because of the step to 64 Bits. There was an - IMO - very unpleasant open beta, but it was far from bugfree.

Was Logic X bugfree? No. There were several point updates already AFAIK.

Was Cubase 7 bugfree? No. I read that there were very severe problems of all kinds with it.


Every professional knows that you need to wait at least some months if not half a year after a release until a complex piece of code like a DAW has settled. That is reality. Everything else is wishful thinking.


And believe it or not, I understand you guys so perfectly well.
No matter what questions are answered here, you will only know when you have it running on your own system and spend some time with it if it will do something for you or not.

That is what all the talk boils down to and I personally prefer facing that fact over endless discussions of how they should do business or how epic they fail or stuff like that. That's all just one's own frustration projected on an external target. But it doesn't solve anything, it only makes the milk sour.

Cheers,

Tom

[Cyoon]

Will this native modulation system be open for third party developers? like an available sourcecode or format they could port their plugins to, in order to make use of it?

i think about using a third party plugin as soundgenerator but making all the parameters of it available in the modular system in the background, which then could be rearranged or maybe even combined with other instruments.

I guess what you say is basically what the modular system, the node view, will make available in Version 2.
AFAIK there will be a SDK for third parties to implement nodes for that system and I would guess you can then create your own along the same principles as the internal devices.

You can do what you say already in most nodal hosts, especially Usine comes to mind, where each parameter is available on nodes as inputs and/or outputs to be modulated as floating point values, so no midi restrictions.
In Usine you also have a C++ SDK, for instance I programmed a very flexible quasi-random modulator with it:
http://www.design4audio.de/home/aon-random/
There's also scripting for less demanding things.

I don't know exactly how Bitwigs modular system will compare to that, since it's only accessible in their internal builds, not in the betas.

But I find it helpful to keep the underlying modular structure in mind since it helps understand how some thing work.
If you build a device chain, in the background it's structures are created as nodes in the modular system.

Cheers,

Tom

thanks tom! sounds good

[tooneba]

Sry, my remember wasn't correct. Then it seems even worse. They even lose a method to aware crutial bug by checking over 30 pages bug report thread before the release

There is absolutely zero benefit in having a team of 20 or 100 public beta testers who don't report proper bugs (full steps to 100% reproducibility, crash logs). What's worse, though, is that more beta testers means it more likely the software ends up on some warez site prior to release.

If you remember what happened with D-16 and LuSH-101 beta: a warez leak delayed the release for years.

Peace,
Andy.

Well, it's doubtful. Even there is a beta phase devs can't find whole bugs. Top level QC can't find fatal data loss bug of operating system. The failure of acquiring informative bug reports is technical issue not public beta itself. And it is silly that holding beta test for fear of warez leads to lose the oppotunity to find more bugs. It just indicates they don't trust (future) customers and don't give a damn about the perfection of the debug of the software that future customers will buy with their hard earned money. I can't trust those company who can't trust their users firstly. It's just your assumption so it may not be the case of the bitwig of course.

Cracker cracks software no matter how it is protected unless it has dongle. All I can say is don't let customer get half assed software to find another bugs.

[ZenPunkHippy]

The failure of acquiring informative bug reports is technical issue not public beta itself.

You've just proved you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Cyoon]

there is no public beta and there won't be, so why dicuss this? i don't get it..

[tooneba]

The failure of acquiring informative bug reports is technical issue not public beta itself.

You've just proved you have no idea what you're talking about.

The problem lies how efiiciently get informative reports during public beta phase. Not whether give up public beta or not.

[tooneba]

there is no public beta and there won't be, so why dicuss this? i don't get it..

Because I don't want get a new software to become another beta tester

[Cyoon]

well, but your wish will not change the situation.

[LawrenceF]

Because I don't want get a new software to become another beta tester

That's what demos are for, to test before you buy. It's software, not crack cocaine.

[Ogopogo]

Because I don't want get a new software to become another beta tester

Understandable. But I also see this as a wait and see thing. We don't know much about their methods, how many private testers there are, or how much they stand to gain by opening it publicly. The noise could outweigh the extra info. If they release it and it's bug riddled, then it makes more sense to speculate about what they should have done.

[LawrenceF]

And you can be sure of one thing: No matter how many betatesters - there will be bugs in version 1.0.

And versions 2 through infinity.

Software developers are not omnipotent, they're human. Reaper has a 100% wide open to anyone who want to test pre-release beta program but some bugs still make it into release versions.

Why? Because it's likely very few people actually working will be *really* working full time with betas... especially not with paid or critical work. I have doubts that even people in closed beta programs actually regularly use the betas for "real" work, as opposed to just testing this and that when they get some spare time. Likely very few beta testers do any kind of regression testing, they usually just test the new stuff in the latest build.

It's when a thing hits the masses when the other bugs show up... especially on Windows where there are 20 billion unique system configs. That is to say, when thousands of people "buy" something for $3-400 they *really* actually use it a lot, so more bugs will show up.

[tooneba]

Technologie haven't been progressed on such mindset "hey, internet is full of hackers. Shall we give up and let them hack." Letting users buy halfassed softwares/upgrade and report bugs is bad habit. I don't trust such company at any rate unless they did all what they could do. I hope BW release stable one.

[ThomasHelzle]

I hope BW release stable one.

Like everybody else, including the developers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

And now for something completely different:

If you don't like cats, maybe some cool graphics? Fullscreen recommended. May need a fast machine.
http://www.cake23.de/fmx/turing-fluid-p ... dback.html
You need a browser with webgl support, like for instance the new opera http://www.opera.com/ or chrome etc.

This shows very well how life works.
Everything is interconnected and influences everything else.
Not Chaos, but interaction between forces.
You are one of the dots.
Enjoy the ride

Cheers,

Tom

[Ogopogo]

^Wow. Now somebody make that into a synth somehow please.

[ThomasHelzle]

^Wow. Now somebody make that into a synth somehow please.

Oh yes please