Set-up of RC as VSTi in Cubase 7

[petearch]

I'm having problems getting this to work at all with multi-channels.

I've read the manual and watched the video and although it's Reaper, the principals are the same.

I'm sure I had it working using the previous version (demo) but I can't for the life of me figure it out now!

My RC project shows Auto-Assigned (1 and 2) and I've got my MIDI input for both tracks in Cubase set to RC. Track 1 is Piano, track 2 is Bass

But the following occurs:

1. If I highlight (or enable) track 1 in Cubase it plays both the piano and bass tracks (from RC) using the piano sound

2. Conversely, if I highlight track 2 in Cubase it plays both the piano and bass using the bass sound

3. If I highlight both tracks in Cubase it plays both the piano and bass using both sounds!

I also seem to remember in the old version, you could set RC to 1-16, 17-32, etc. but I can't see how to do that anymore. So I'm not sure how you would add more than 16 instruments.

EDIT: I think the problem is that the channel presets are missing. The old manual says to set preset 1-16, 17-32, etc. but there are no presets in this version (at least I can't find any). So RC must be treating everything as a single track.

The dll says it's version 1.8.0.0 inside Cubase. Is that correct or should it be 2.5?

[pumafred]

I'm having problems getting this to work at all with multi-channels.

I've read the manual and watched the video and although it's Reaper, the principals are the same.

I'm sure I had it working using the previous version (demo) but I can't for the life of me figure it out now!

My RC project shows Auto-Assigned (1 and 2) and I've got my MIDI input for both tracks in Cubase set to RC. Track 1 is Piano, track 2 is Bass

But the following occurs:

1. If I highlight (or enable) track 1 in Cubase it plays both the piano and bass tracks (from RC) using the piano sound

2. Conversely, if I highlight track 2 in Cubase it plays both the piano and bass using the bass sound

3. If I highlight both tracks in Cubase it plays both the piano and bass using both sounds!

I also seem to remember in the old version, you could set RC to 1-16, 17-32, etc. but I can't see how to do that anymore. So I'm not sure how you would add more than 16 instruments.

EDIT: I think the problem is that the channel presets are missing. The old manual says to set preset 1-16, 17-32, etc. but there are no presets in this version (at least I can't find any). So RC must be treating everything as a single track.

The dll says it's version 1.8.0.0 inside Cubase. Is that correct or should it be 2.5?

Hi,
Since I am a newbie to this, could you guide me, as far as you know, to get RC working within Cubase 7? I set RC up as an instrument, and did all the midi in and out directing as I understand it. However, for starters, every time I get the RC GUI, Cubase stops playing, and viceversa. To make a long story short, I could not get anything to work, not even a single VST instrument.
Any help would be appreciated!!

[como baila]

It's late and I just saw this thread ... so this will be a brief response. Also, I don't have time now to open Cubase and check on a couple of things to fully answer all the questions.

I've been having some issues with Cubase 7 that I contacted Attila about ... but they are different. Namely, that projects I saved with RC VSTi are hanging on opening. That is, so far, two I've saved won't reopen.

I think I know the answer to Pete's question, but I didn't experience it ... probably because I was sending out midi from Cubase to a multichannel sound module where each channel only recognized midi input from a single channel.

As you've noticed, Cubase passes all the midi from all the channels to each enabled track.

The reason for this is to permit you to select any track at the header in a Cubase project and still trigger that track's midi output to the selected sound source with a master keyboard. And that master keyboard is only outputting midi on a single channel ... of your choice ... at a time.

While this is usually desirable for recording midi to a track, it presents a problem with all MIDI VSTi ... not just RC's.

The solution is to create midi input filters using the insert tracks and the transform midi plugin. At this very moment I'm too tired to recall from memory exactly how you set up the transform plugin (a mini version of Cubase's logical editor) ... but I'll try to dig up the answer in a day or two and report back.

While this can be a bit tedious, you can easily setup a template with 16 midi tracks and each track with a midi input filter for only one channel. When you want to use a second instance of RC VSTi you just duplicate all those tracks and change the track midi output.

Here's an old but still applicable article from Sound on Sound discussing some of these issues. If I recall correctly you can filter the midi channels using either the Input Transformer function on the track header or by inserting a midi Transform plugin in the track insert slot. There is some subtle difference between using these ... but it escapes me at the moment.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995_ar ... sics4.html

As far as the tracks not playing, make sure you click on the little orange monitor switch in the main midi track inspector header. You should do this for all your tracks receiving midi input and then they will play whether selected or not.

I had no problem playing midi output from RC through Cubase to my sound modules. I set up a loop in Cubase and everything was functioning as expected.

I think that pumafred's problem is that the monitor switches aren't enabled and you are inadvertently muting the midi input to Cubase tracks when you go to the RC gui.

[petearch]

Wow Como, you are a star, it works!

This is what you do:

1. Set up RC as a VST Instrument in Cubase (F11 - it won't show up as MIDI input if you set it as an Instrument Track). There's no need to create a MIDI track for it

2. Set up Halion 5 (or whatever) as a VST Instrument and add 2 MIDI tracks for it, assigned to channels 1 and 2. (I've done it for 16 channels to save as a template but you can start with just 2 to test)

3. Add a Piano to channel 1 and a bass to 2 (or whatever) in Halion.

4. Add some piano and bass to the corresponding RC tracks

5. Highlight track 1 in Cubase and click the funny arrow button on the right-hand side of the mute. solo, etc. buttons in the track inspector and select Local. This brings up the Input Transformer window

6. At the bottom of this window, click the dropdown arrow and select Filter

7. Click the '+' button under the Filter Target

8. Select Type Is - Channel

9. Select Condition Unequal - 1

10. At the top of the window, make sure the blue activation button is lit for Module 1, then close the window. What this is doing is saying 'filter anything on this channel that is not channel 1'

11. Repeat from step 5 for track 2 but this time set the value at step 9 to 2

12. Repeat for any other tracks you want to add (up to 16) and save as a template

As they say, every day's a school day. I didn't even know about this transformer before and it seems there's some pretty amazing stuff you can do with it!

Thanks again for your help Como, I hope I've explained it all correctly. Now to make some music

EDIT: I've realised it would probably be quicker to create one track in Cubase with the transformer set, duplicate it 15 times, then just change the parameter for each track at step 9. I haven't tried this, I didn't think of it until I got to track 14 (!) but it should work I think.

[como baila]

I think you sussed it ... not too bad for a Gloucester boy. I think you're buying the beer in Bermuda.

[petearch]

Oy Prado, anyway too many triangles in Bermuda.

Now just a few other things to sort out. Cubase hangs when I close a project with RC in it (it opens ok afterwards though), the missing notes on beat 1 of bar 1 and the missing presets for channels 17-32, etc. I will raise a separate support request about these now.

[como baila]

Oy Prado, anyway too many triangles in Bermuda.

Now just a few other things to sort out. Cubase hangs when I close a project with RC in it (it opens ok afterwards though), the missing notes on beat 1 of bar 1 and the missing presets for channels 17-32, etc. I will raise a separate support request about these now.

Funny ... I'm not having trouble closing projects, but reopening them.

I think the missing first note is only on looping, isn't it? Seems like I recall that it played every other time when looping.

I think this is a Cubase issue with MIDI VSTi ... not sure about other DAWs.

[petearch]

Funny ... I'm not having trouble closing projects, but reopening them.

Yes that is strange. I'd rather have it my way round though as it just means I have to Task Manager it to get rid. Must be a real pain that a project won't open, I don't understand that.

I think the missing first note is only on looping, isn't it? Seems like I recall that it played every other time when looping.

Yes it's only on looping, but it misses it on every loop not every other one. Not sure if it's an RC or Cubase problem but it's a shame from my perspective!

[pumafred]

Thank you very much for all the info, both of you guys!
Everything worked.

However, I have some remaining doubts.

When I open RC, I get a little Cubase box saying "Bring RapidComposer To Top". When I click that, RC opens, but Cubase stops looping. Is this to be expected? Am I supposed to create something in RC, close RC, and then listen to the loop in Cubase every time?

Also, once I have something I like, how do I drag the midi to Cubase?

[pumafred]

BTW, I am also having the issue of the first note being skipped, loop or no loop.
I tried recording the midi on both tracks, and the first notes were not there.

[pumafred]

One more thing, in case it is useful for anybody:
I realized Cubase was stopping every time I opened RC because of a setting I made some time ago in Cubase:
In "Device Setup", "VST Audio System", I had chosen "Release Driver when Application is in Background". Unticked that now, and the "problem" is gone.

[petearch]

Hey Fred, I think you answered all your own questions there

I raised the looping/recording issue (missing the first note ) with Attila and he said he will look next week after the next update. I'm afraid it might be a Cubase issue though, so if you'd like to raise it with Steinberg (good luck with that )

[pumafred]

Hey Fred, I think you answered all your own questions there

I raised the looping/recording issue (missing the first note ) with Attila and he said he will look next week after the next update. I'm afraid it might be a Cubase issue though, so if you'd like to raise it with Steinberg (good luck with that )

I wouldn't know where to start explaining what my problem is.
Especially since I have no other example than RC with this problem.
I'd rather wait for the RC updates and see what happens.

[como baila]

Hey Puma ... I think that was a 'rhetorical' statement from Pete. I should have thought of the ol' 'Release Drivers In Background' setting myself.

I have learned ... to give credit where credit's due ... that as with the need for setting up MIDI filters, sometimes developers have to compromise on choosing between behaviors towards how most people use the software.

Two thoughts:

1) If you insert an empty beat at the beginning of the composition and don't include that in the loop selection, is the first beat still missing?

2) You can always drag and drop that section of your RC MIDI to a Cubase midi track.

Good job!

[pumafred]

Hey Puma ... I think that was a 'rhetorical' statement from Pete. I should have thought of the ol' 'Release Drivers In Background' setting myself.

I have learned ... to give credit where credit's due ... that as with the need for setting up MIDI filters, sometimes developers have to compromise on choosing between behaviors towards how most people use the software.

Two thoughts:

1) If you insert an empty beat at the beginning of the composition and don't include that in the loop selection, is the first beat still missing?

2) You can always drag and drop that section of your RC MIDI to a Cubase midi track.

Good job!

I know this is an extremely silly question, but I've not been able, in the little time I've tried, to drag and drop RC midi (when used as a VST) into Cubase. Should the Cubase midi track be empty or should I draw an empty box for the data?

Thanks for your patience!