MusicDevelopments

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:50 pm

I am going to reiterate a couple of points I made here sometime ago and on another forum with a a midi prototyping program that hosts VSTi.

Some may be tired of hearing it ... but hear goes.

First, since the developer states the program can host VST instruments, they must make that function work within the reasonable parameters of what VST instruments can do.

That said, why would anyone want to? The only possible exclusive use of hosting VST Instruments as opposed to parallel functions that could be accomplished with virtual midi cables or a hosted VSTi version of RC would be for simplifying live performance, i.e., making an arrangement using RC and playing along with it though the program on a 'live' track. However, given the practical limitations of VST Instruments latency, this hardly seems like a satisfactory application.

Now, does anyone intend with RC hosting VST instruments to produce directly a mastering ready stereo mix down? I don't really think so. Which means, that at some point either all that midi must other wise be exported to a DAW and the same selection of VST instruments then loaded in the DAW for audio production. Why would anyone want to do this twice?

For me the preferred solution ... which I lobbied Attila for a few years ago ... is the VST version of RC. The beauty of this scheme is that it permits both complete syncing between RC and your DAW, but the ability to add effects to the VSTi audio output channels, create busses and record your midi to audio for further processing and mixing all in one tidy project.

A second best is the use of virtual midi cabling in which the DAW can at least play the role of a synth farm and then be ready to go on export and import of the RC midi data.

If I want to 'fool around' with RC on my laptop, preparing sketches or even complete arrangements ... no problem. I either tie into my little Roland 1010 general midi or use my collection of well over 1000 soundfonts gleaned over the years off the internet. No latency, no headaches, no problems.

I suppose this is fairly characterized as a 'rant,' but I really have no objection to anyone trying to host VSTi in RC ... it's just that I continue to be puzzled why they would as I cannot discover any advantage to doing so.

OK ... back to my cave.

tonedef71 · Post by **tonedef71** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:45 pm

como baila wrote:I suppose this is fairly characterized as a 'rant,' but I really have no objection to anyone trying to host VSTi in RC ... it's just that I continue to be puzzled why they would as I cannot discover any advantage to doing so.

When I am prototyping a composition with RC standalone, I find it easier to create phrases and listen to chords by auditioning with the sounds of the very same VSTis that I intend to use for playback in my full blown DAW.

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:07 am

tonedef71 wrote:
como baila wrote:I suppose this is fairly characterized as a 'rant,' but I really have no objection to anyone trying to host VSTi in RC ... it's just that I continue to be puzzled why they would as I cannot discover any advantage to doing so.
When I am prototyping a composition with RC standalone, I find it easier to create phrases and listen to chords by auditioning with the sounds of the very same VSTis that I intend to use for playback in my full blown DAW.

Completely understandable to prefer to use the same sounds, something many agree upon.

But then what is the advantage of not routing through your DAW to begin with instead of having to more or less set everything up twice?

tonedef71 · Post by **tonedef71** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:41 am

musicdevelopments wrote:The growing number of VST plug-ins appearing will be fixed ASAP.

Thanks,
Attila

Thank you! That sure is an especially nasty bug.

I am not sure if this had anything to do with the stability issues I was having, but I noticed that I had better stability when I stopped using the "Edit" VSTi option and I may have clicked the "Save" button, as well.

After that, I noticed that the .rcINST file to have extra information at the end of it

Code: Select all

name="Default (VSTi)"; _file="C:\audio\VSTPlugins\64-bit\BrainControl\TuneFish\vst_tf3.dll"; kind="VSTICHUNK"; _chunk="Tunefish v3-Default (VSTi).rcVSTI"; _chunkchn=1; _program=0; _note=60; category=""; function=0; _chord=0;

and an extra file was created in the DB folder: Tunefish v3-Default (VSTi).rcVSTI

Actually, I was only using the "Edit" to bring up the VSTi window and manually select the patch I wanted -- that was the only way I could get the proper patch name to show up. Previously it would display "Program 65", which I believe was the original preset name that was reported by the VSTi.

I found a better workaround for the patch name display problem. After deleting the extra file and deleting the extra line from the .rcINST for the VSTi, I also changed the value of the "name" parameter for the preset:

Code: Select all

name="Phat Lead"; _file="C:\audio\VSTPlugins\64-bit\BrainControl\TuneFish\vst_tf3.dll"; kind=VSTI; _program=64; category="Synth Pad"; function=2;

tonedef71 · Post by **tonedef71** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:57 am

como baila wrote:But then what is the advantage of not routing through your DAW to begin with instead of having to more or less set everything up twice?

Hmm... I guess because I already know how to import a MIDI file (that was exported from RC), but I have not yet tried to wire up RC to my DAW as a VSTi.

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:59 am

tonedef71 wrote:
como baila wrote:But then what is the advantage of not routing through your DAW to begin with instead of having to more or less set everything up twice?
Hmm... I guess because I already know how to import a MIDI file (that was exported from RC), but I have not yet tried to wire up RC to my DAW as a VSTi.

Assuming your DAW can host a MIDI VSTi instrument ... try it. You'll love it!

yellukhan · Post by **yellukhan** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:37 pm

como baila wrote:
tonedef71 wrote:
como baila wrote:But then what is the advantage of not routing through your DAW to begin with instead of having to more or less set everything up twice?
Hmm... I guess because I already know how to import a MIDI file (that was exported from RC), but I have not yet tried to wire up RC to my DAW as a VSTi.
Assuming your DAW can host a MIDI VSTi instrument ... try it. You'll love it!

Hi
can i sneak in right here

if the Idea Tool was there i would love RC Vst much more.

now serious
i have a question because i am not quite sure is this is a bug
or just a newbie error ...
when i use master track magnet i get out of scale note result

to being more specific
progression : awesome 4 chords

phrase : Custom Phrases/Piano/Piano Basic 13

is this is normal?

HiEnergy · Post by **HiEnergy** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:23 pm

Those c#'s look definitely wrong assumed it's C major.
Maybe RC didn't know how to fit those in.
A wrong note is still better than no note at all..

yellukhan · Post by **yellukhan** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:59 pm

Hi
HiEnergy

soundcase here from SFP forum
nice to see you here too

i think i found the reason,
what i suspect is:
those notes has note offset values "+2"

i tested every single "custom piano phrases" in the same project
seems also
PianoBasic15 ,PianoBasic16 has same thing.

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:47 pm

yellukhan wrote:
como baila wrote: Hi
can i sneak in right here

<snip>

Touche!

Though it would not be too hard or time consuming to run the idea tool, save the composition and reopen it from the VSTi.

Hi 'soundcase.' Como AKA Prado SF forum.

yellukhan · Post by **yellukhan** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:55 pm

oh all we are here ?

Hi Prado nice to see you too!

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:57 pm

yellukhan wrote:oh all we are here ?

Hi Prado nice to see you too!

Thanks! Now we just need Jürgen, BlackSun, MarkStyles and Janamdo and we'll have a real party!

HiEnergy · Post by **HiEnergy** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:15 pm

Now where we're together here in the "club" with the usual suspects, we need a fusion of RC and the "other" program.

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:18 pm

You are right, the two wrong notes should be defined as "Ch(0)+1 scale step" instead of "Ch(0)+2 semitones" which will sometimes produce out-of-scale notes.
This will be fixed shortly in the other phrases too.

If you'd like you can fix it quickly in the phrase editor by clicking on the wrong note, and set 'Note Offset' to +1, and 'Note Offset Unit' to 'Scale Steps'.

Apart from this problem I hope you enjoy the extra phrases

Thanks,
Attila

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:52 pm

Amazing, you all know each other

Today some bugs were fixed when using VSTi plug-ins in the standalone program, one of them was serious. Now you can set up a VST plug-in in the Idea Tool and the exact same sound will be used in the generated tracks.
An update will be uploaded next week.

The reason for the missing Idea Tool in the VST plug-in lies in the instrument selection which you can't do in the VST plug-in the same way as in the standalone version. There will be a solution for that.

MusicDevelopments

KVR Audio

Bug reports