KVR Audio

drez · Post by **drez** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:43 pm

Hey Rob,

I guess I don't understand what part of the session view Sonar has (I don't use Sonar). To me, there is nothing in the session view that any other sequencer can even come close to doing. I arrange all of my parts in there, unlock clips to change automation past normal loop points, set warp markers in tons of odd locations, duplicate clips onto different tracks and change the effects routings to contrast the other,etc. All in like 2 seconds. Its super fast to work in.

I guess I use it for an arrangment tool that I can then dump into the arrangment view later for linear editing.

What style of music do you mainly do? Are you loop based?

lucille · Post by **lucille** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:47 pm

i don't know--duh--I've played with live for 2 hrs,
and aside from a revolutionary non linear interface,
amazing automation, including vst fx automation with
no cc kevetching, a truly gapless engine, and some
of the best native fx this side of logic, well, its
pretty much just like sonar. Maybe I'll give it another hour.

MidiSwede · Post by **MidiSwede** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:54 pm

The Session view is a something I don't have in Sonar. Messing with Live the short time I have, I am intrigued by the "flow" this view can provide. Live is more streamlined in general but I'm not convinced it can replace Sonar for me yet.

Yes, most of my writing is loop based. Though it has been MIDI loops until the last couple years. Now I combine audio and MIDI loops.

This demo tune is rather lame at showing Live's features

lucille · Post by **lucille** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:35 am

try this--

open reason and live. create a redrum and make a
beat and some varios. Loop at 1 or 2 bars. Now record
like 3-5 varios in live (so you'll have 3-5 clips
in session) Now do the same with bass intrument.
Remember, you can revoice on the fly without creating
a new sampler. Record about 5-7 varios into live as
clips. Try the same with 2-3 chord sequences or ding a lyric.

Now, in live, turn off looping, turn on
record and just turn clips on and off--random or
with intent--you'll see all different stuff drop out.
For me, the ability to revoice and mix and match is
very powerful--and very fun. Your mileage may vary.
Good luck.

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:39 am

I think Sonar (which i bought and paid for) will be happy to have one customer left midiswede, and for that you should get free upgrades from cakewalk for life.

but seriously though if you're not feelin Live don't even sweat it sonar is a great program, just cakewalk on.

MidiSwede · Post by **MidiSwede** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:03 am

stale bread wrote:I think Sonar (which i bought and paid for) will be happy to have one customer left midiswede, and for that you should get free upgrades from cakewalk for life.

but seriously though if you're not feelin Live don't even sweat it sonar is a great program, just cakewalk on.

With toyz like P5 and Kinetic I think Sonar is the only thing they still got going for them.

I'd take the free upgrade though!

Then I might be able to buy Live4 sooner.

Right now it's hard to justify $500 USD for the benefit of getting the Session view and some streamlining. But I am leaning that way just a little bit. I'll have to wait for the Live 4 demo to be sure.

Cheers,

Rob

MidiSwede · Post by **MidiSwede** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:15 am

Hey lucille,

Thanks for the tip!

I have been doing a bit of that with Reason already. I got to put my own music in there if I want to see what it'll do for me.

But, honestly, the ableton crew has got to step up their demo a bit. Give three or four styles of music to mix and match. I would have got a lot more out of it if I had that up front.

Rob

drez · Post by **drez** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:50 am

stale bread wrote:I think Sonar (which i bought and paid for) will be happy to have one customer left midiswede, and for that you should get free upgrades from cakewalk for life.

but seriously though if you're not feelin Live don't even sweat it sonar is a great program, just cakewalk on.

I agree with Stale, use what works for you.

I have tried (and failed) with alot of different sequence packages out there and the traditional model just doesn't work well for me. I never looked at Live because just reading about it confused me, but then I finally downloaded the demo and spent a couple of days (and nights) with it and I was hooked. It just made total sense to me! Reason is kind of traditional, but the patching that you can do made it tops in my book.

I hope you keep trying the demo and I'd be happy to help if you have any questions. I'm not the best, but I'll do what I can

svartling · Post by **svartling** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:58 am

In live you can make an entire song with only one audioloop.
You can use clip envelopes and warp points to make hundreds of different versions of the same loop. And then play them with your keyboard and record new loops if you like.
How can you do that with Sonar?

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:46 am

MidiSwede wrote:Right now it's hard to justify $500 USD for the benefit of getting the Session view and some streamlining. But I am leaning that way just a little bit. I'll have to wait for the Live 4 demo to be sure.
Cheers,
Rob

this could be the clincher for many people ...

... ive been with live since i got a deal on live2 just before live3 came out (so i got a free upgrade) and the upgrade price from live3 to live4 is a no-brainer ...

... but as a hobbyist if i didnt have live3 id have to think long and hard about dumping my current sequencer and shelling out about 300 quid for an 'unknown' quantity ...

... it probably IS worth it - but convincing potential NEW customers is the hard thing for ableton (and yes - better demo tracks would help here)

slainte

rob

musiXboy · Post by **musiXboy** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:17 am

maybe i should throw Reason choose LIVE 4 =)

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:11 am

The thing for me is that, as mad as it sounds, i have been trying to make music with very mixed success for about 10 years, but i still slog on. I have no musical training at all(6 months on guitar 10 years ago!!) and i have never found a way of working that feels correct.

I have come very close in the past using buzz tracker, then Orion, and i recently bought Renoise tracker but i am not convinced by that one yet.

On that journey, i have also been through FLStudio, Reason(the worst by far, utterly genius piece of software but not for me), and several others(all legitimately before i get accused!).

I have always enjoyed working with audio loops, mangling and re-arranging and the like, but most software just isn't very good at this. And most hosts, in my experience, either do audio well or soft-synths/midi well, but not both.

I think if Live can truly offer the ability to mess with midi clips for softsynths and drum machines in the same way it can mess with audio, and it can allow me to genuinely compose "live" then it'll get my cash.

If thats the case(let it be, let it be!!) then all i'll need otherwise is my trusty trackers to knock up loops. I'm considering going back to buzz to see if the VST support is good enough in the meantime. The pattern sequencing in buzz is genius.

Shit i'm rambling

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:32 am

my friend if Live4 is what ableton says it is, you won't even need to go anywhere else to knock up those loops and bits of audio, Live in it's current version is just nutts already, I just bought FL studio to use as a vst host/ beatmachine strictly for using with Live, if I had known about this I would not have gotten it. now instead of trying to sell battery I'm trying to sell battery and fruityloops, less than a week old. this is really an historical moment in music software in a time when that is getting increasingly impossible to do ableton do it effortlessly.

not only are they software makers that relate to there users and what they want but they actualy want the same thing their users want. its easy to be innovative, but not useful, or extremely functional but not innovative but Live is the most innovative, functional, and joyful piece of software to have ever
been made. The only thing to look forward to after this will be Live5. On top of all of this Live multiplies the value of all of the wonderful developers here at kvr and other sites, see other software becomes instantly superfun, and incredibly more flexible with-in Live, tons of people like myself have already spent past the upgrade price to buy other host just to be able to stick those host inside live via rewire, or vst efx. This is definitely not 'HYPE' I saw a statement on the live forum that really rang true.."comparing other apps to
Live is like comparing hardware recording to recording with a computer, it's just that much better
than cubase, sonar, logic, and the like in ways that
they will never be able to relate to much less emulate.

and I don't even work for them.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:08 pm

BTW If anyone doesnt know, Live 3 can be got from Digital Village or Turnkey for £170 at the mo... not the £300 that teach mentioned.

Just a couple of questions, tho'; anyone know if Live supports plugins with multiple ins/outs, or is that still mostly energyXT-and-the-like territory?

And if MIDI loops can be MIDI-note triggered, can you set up a MIDI loop which triggers other MIDI loops?

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:18 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:BTW If anyone doesnt know, Live 3 can be got from Digital Village or Turnkey for £170 at the mo... not the £300 that teach mentioned.

just for clarification - i was talking about buying live4 from scratch when its released rather than buying live3 now

whyterabbyt wrote:Just a couple of questions, tho'; anyone know if Live supports plugins with multiple ins/outs, or is that still mostly energyXT-and-the-like territory?

???

whyterabbyt wrote:And if MIDI loops can be MIDI-note triggered, can you set up a MIDI loop which triggers other MIDI loops?

if what ableton SEEM to be saying about flexible routing is true then presumably yes ???

slainte

rob

Get drool cups ready for... Live 4