KVR Audio

autodafe · Post by **autodafe** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:14 pm

Hi,
I need to print a small run (50-100) of CD copies for a benefit compilation, only traditional/public domain stuff...
the problem is...The local (Italian) laws on CD duplication forces us to pay about 70-80 eurocents, for each copy, even if there's no royalty involved.

I am looking for some EU company (no borders, no customs) that could print this small run of copies in the cheapest cheap way (it's a benefit project after all)

any suggestion?

Ja.x · Post by **Ja.x** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:31 pm

I think that the laws about duplication in Italy are from the EU Parliament and apply to EU in general.

autodafe · Post by **autodafe** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:39 pm

definitely not. it's something related to SIAE which is the (partially privetaly held)society for artist's rights.
Here in Italy they ask for a tax even if the CD you print is public domain/traditional music. No money and no rights for anybody.
But they still ask you to pay some money for each copy you duplicate.

Ja.x · Post by **Ja.x** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:02 pm

Same here (it's called SPA), but the requirement is based in EU law (such societies can't impose such a rule by themselves). Even new media you buy includes a small fraction for SPA idiots. Want to take pictures of your family? You pay. CD's, DVD,s, SD cards. Need to make a portable version of LibreOffice, for example? You pay a percentage on the price of flash drives. Need extra memory in your phone? You give money again on the price of the TF card. That's it. The funny thing is that it seems (only 50% sure here) that you pay a fee for SPA for the replication of CD's, but not of CD-Rom's (whatever the difference is).

autodafe · Post by **autodafe** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:17 pm

that's another story.
when you buy a CD-R you pay a small fee (a few cents) of taxes. That's an EU law imposed by media companies.

what I am talking about is not tax on virgin media. It's money for royalties, and any CD-printing company need to have it paid before printing your CDs. And it' about 70-80 cents a piece, not just a few cents...

Ja.x · Post by **Ja.x** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:01 pm

I wasn't talking about buying "virgin" media and it's fee, I was talking about replicating as a "music CD" or as a "CD-R". A couple of years ago I made some market inquiry and some companies on the replicating CD's market made the distinction between replicating a "music CD" or a "CD-R". The distinction wasn't much clear, but it seemed like the difference could be either the contents (just music or music+video, for example), or the printing on CD and jewel case of a bar code (UPC -Universal Product Code - registration, hence the need to prove the publishing rights were cleared with SPA, or whatever local organization). Didn't research further then but the bottom line, and even just with your own music or no copyrighted music, it seemed to me that if you want a CD to be sold on the regular distribution music market (and need a bar code and all that UPC blabla) is one thing, and if you just want some CD's with info on your business replicated to give to your customers is another thing (and they call it CD-R ?); in this case the same applies to a music CD like described before but just to distribute freely (promotional), or sell privately, for example directly to people in your gigs - and I bought many directly to artists which were not for sale anywhere else. As mentioned, it was more or else the info I got a couple of years ago.

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:12 pm

autodafe wrote:the problem is...The local (Italian) laws on CD duplication forces us to pay about 70-80 eurocents, for each copy, even if there's no royalty involved.

I've never heard something like this here in Germany. As far as I know, we don't have to pay any tax for duplicating CDs...

Zombie Queen · Post by **Zombie Queen** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:20 pm

I'm quite sure such law does not apply in Poland. Here's one company: http://disc4u.eu/en/offer.php

autodafe · Post by **autodafe** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:40 am

[quote="Tricky-Loops"]I've never heard something like this here in Germany. As far as I know, we don't have to pay any tax for duplicating CDs...

actually, these are not taxes, but royalties that have to be paid to the author(s) of the music you print on CD. So far, so good...

The funny thing is that you have to pay royalties EVEN if you print a CD of public domain music or a CD composed by you, that you wish to give away for free...you have to pay royalties to yourself! and those royalties fo course come back at the end of the year with a 40-50% cut...
I my case it's a compilation of traditional/folk music (e.g no authors), the musicians agreed to give it away for donation, we will publish it a s MP3 but I wanted to make some "phyisical" copies as well

autodafe · Post by **autodafe** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:42 am

Zombie Queen wrote:I'm quite sure such law does not apply in Poland. Here's one company: http://disc4u.eu/en/offer.php

thanks for the link. seems quite cheap. I will give 'em a call

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:42 pm

autodafe wrote:The funny thing is that you have to pay royalties EVEN if you print a CD of public domain music or a CD composed by you, that you wish to give away for free...you have to pay royalties to yourself! and those royalties fo course come back at the end of the year with a 40-50% cut...
I my case it's a compilation of traditional/folk music (e.g no authors), the musicians agreed to give it away for donation, we will publish it a s MP3 but I wanted to make some "phyisical" copies as well

Absolutely hair-raising! I know there are a few odd laws in Italy but this one is by far the craziest I've heard of...

autodafe · Post by **autodafe** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:39 am

Tricky-Loops wrote:Absolutely hair-raising! I know there are a few odd laws in Italy but this one is by far the craziest I've heard of...

wanna laugh more?
if you are an artist, and want to publish previews and clips of your works for salf-promotion on your own website, for free...than you need a license. 180 euros/year (only up to 20 clips and 30.000 pageviews/month)
In the case as a label, the license is doubled, 360 euros/year (only up to 20 clips and 30.000 pageviews/month). But a label will probably have more than 20 clips...and license costs rise....

Actually, it has to be said that this is not a "law"...it's SIAE, Italian Society for Managing rights of Authors and Publishers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_So ... Publishers

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:25 pm

autodafe wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:Absolutely hair-raising! I know there are a few odd laws in Italy but this one is by far the craziest I've heard of...

wanna laugh more?
if you are an artist, and want to publish previews and clips of your works for salf-promotion on your own website, for free...than you need a license. 180 euros/year (only up to 20 clips and 30.000 pageviews/month)
In the case as a label, the license is doubled, 360 euros/year (only up to 20 clips and 30.000 pageviews/month). But a label will probably have more than 20 clips...and license costs rise....

Actually, it has to be said that this is not a "law"...it's SIAE, Italian Society for Managing rights of Authors and Publishers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_So ... Publishers

Is it obligatory (for every musician) to become member of the SIAE?

So if I had an old PC and I would play around with loops, and I wouldn't publish anything of it, I had to register at the SIAE? Even if I wouldn't make commercial music at all?

Every musician in Italy?

In Germany at least I don't have to become member of the GEMA (the German pendant to the SIAE), there are many independent artists without GEMA membership.

autodafe · Post by **autodafe** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:32 pm

NO, it's not compulsory to adhere to SIAE (like GEMA or other similar companies in the world) but if you want to make a living out of it you 8and get some royalties form your work) are probably going to inscribe

We released a CD of a DUO (registered to SIAE) and therefore we have to pay these royalties just to publish free clips on our website

More laugh. If you happen to marry, and want to play some CD at your wedding party, or play some music, SIAE asks royalties. There's an addition if people are going to dance (I paid about 350 euros last year for my "balfolk" wedding party)

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:47 pm

autodafe wrote:NO, it's not compulsory to adhere to SIAE (like GEMA or other similar companies in the world) but if you want to make a living out of it you 8and get some royalties form your work) are probably going to inscribe

We released a CD of a DUO (registered to SIAE) and therefore we have to pay these royalties just to publish free clips on our website

More laugh. If you happen to marry, and want to play some CD at your wedding party, or play some music, SIAE asks royalties. There's an addition if people are going to dance (I paid about 350 euros last year for my "balfolk" wedding party)

Well, that's the same in Germany. If a band plays GEMA-registered music on a wedding party, they have to pay GEMA royalties. Even if they just sing "Happy Birthday To You" at a private child's birthday party.

And if you create a ringtone for a telephone system or just your own handy with GEMA-registered music, you have to pay royalties, too.

Some GEMA regulations are pretty hair-rising, their main goal seems to be to get as much money as possible, not to support independent artists.

Some clubs & discos even have to give up because they cannot pay as much fees as the GEMA asks for.

Printing a small run of CDs (Europe)