Live vs. Reason

[dten]

Hi, newb question here. With the announcement of Live 4, I've seen several people remark that it might even be a replacement for Reason.

I don't quite understand how. I thought the main point of Reason was that you get several different soft instruments of decent quality, and (virtually) unlimited instances of those instruments which can be creatively patched among each other, within a single, low-resource, stable application instance. And since the sequencer in Reason is crap, you don't bother with it (unless Reason is your ONLY music app), you just ReWire it into another host and use it like you would any other set of virtual instruments.

Live is a host, not an instrument bank. How can you say that one competes with the other?

Thanks in advance for my education.

[quincy]

Hi, newb question here. With the announcement of Live 4, I've seen several people remark that it might even be a replacement for Reason.

I don't quite understand how. I thought the main point of Reason was that you get several different soft instruments of decent quality, and (virtually) unlimited instances of those instruments which can be creatively patched among each other, within a single, low-resource, stable application instance. And since the sequencer in Reason is crap, you don't bother with it (unless Reason is your ONLY music app), you just ReWire it into another host and use it like you would any other set of virtual instruments.

Live is a host, not an instrument bank. How can you say that one competes with the other?

Thanks in advance for my education.

I think you're right there, but most people i believe consider the 2 to be good together, not exclusively. Reason can knock up good sounds for use in Live etc.

You are right that it isn't a fair comparison, 2 tools for 2 diffent jobs really.

[pfung]

They work really nice together. They do share some similarities.

One word: "Rewire"

Once you discover how to work them together, you'll be amazed by the ease of use of Live and the tweakability of Reason. If you are like me, I'd go get a bunch of ReFills for Reason and whatever loops you can find for Live and you've got a complete music production unit.

Of course, I also run these 2 programs with Cubase SX...again, "Rewire"...of of the greatest creation by the Propellerhead guys!

Enjoy...you can always try the demo of Live...is there a demo for Reason?

Patrick

[ClifAnd2k]

[quote="dten"]Hi, newb question here. With the announcement of Live 4, I've seen several people remark that it might even be a replacement for Reason.[quote]

If someone already had Live4 plus a few choice VSTi's (Kontakt, Virsyn Tera, etc.) they would have a fairly comprehensive music-making system. What would you gain by adding Reason via ReWire? Would that offset the extra cost and complexity involved in adding Reason?

[nuffink]

And since the sequencer in Reason is crap

This has become an article of faith amongst computer music fans. I love Reason's sequencer. It integrates perfectly with it's instruments. In fact my biggest problem with rewire is that I want to use Reasons sequencer for all my work.
This is not a flame. I'd genuinely like to know why it's crap?

[LarryAW]

And since the sequencer in Reason is crap

This has become an article of faith amongst computer music fans. I love Reason's sequencer. It integrates perfectly with it's instruments. In fact my biggest problem with rewire is that I want to use Reasons sequencer for all my work.
This is not a flame. I'd genuinely like to know why it's crap?

Because 'he' thinks it's crap, and because reasonable minds may differ. I think everything about Reason is first-rate, but that's my opinion. I think I will start a betting pool on how many responses this thread will grow to. My bet is 115. Of course, people may already be burned-out on the Reason vs. "whatever it's being compared to in a particular thread" argument.

I am really looking forward to the Live 4 upgrade. I saw one post in the other thread that said Live 4 is a "KARMA" killer. I'm not boxing up my Korg KARMA just yet.

[MidiSwede]

I've only messed with the demo for Live so opinion of it is not fully developed jusr yet. But it is a great tool to use along side Reason. They are each their own class of tool.

Reason's sequencer is basic as it is intended only to drive Reason devices. The thing that gets most people frustrated with Reason is that they have to build the sounds and the music they are hoping to get out of it. Reason is about taking basic sound devices and building incredible sounds. Good VSTs have made some musicians lazy so they whine alot about Reason sounds. Reason can compete with most VSTs and beat many of them if the user knows what they are doing. It doesn't matter what kind of softsynths are being compared, if you build them the same they will sound the same. If you put crap in you get crap out. If you put gold in you get gold out.

Cheers,

Rob

[quincy]

I've only messed with the demo for Live so opinion of it is not fully developed jusr yet. But it is a great tool to use along side Reason. They are each their own class of tool.

Reason's sequencer is basic as it is intended only to drive Reason devices. The thing that gets most people frustrated with Reason is that they have to build the sounds and the music they are hoping to get out of it. Reason is about taking basic sound devices and building incredible sounds. Good VSTs have made some musicians lazy so they whine alot about Reason sounds. Reason can compete with most VSTs and beat many of them if the user knows what they are doing. It doesn't matter what kind of softsynths are being compared, if you build them the same they will sound the same. If you put crap in you get crap out. If you put gold in you get gold out.

Cheers,

Rob

I think may people would disagree that reason's devices can comptete, and beat, many VSTi's. Me for one. A lot of VSTi's are designed to sound as good as possible, and chew up CPU doing it. and although reasons's devices can sound good, they are designed to be very CPU-friendly.

I'm not saying thats a bad thing, i think its good that it can run on low-spec machines, but to say that individual reason synths, without extra processing, can beat most VSTi's is stretching the truth a bit. I always found the best sounding reasons tracks need d to layer many synths to get quality sounds. Not a bad thing at all, just a different approach.

Anyway, why argue with what reason is good at, being a self-contained and CPU-friendly studio. At that job, its totally unbeaten. Same for live, as an loop-based tool for making the most of audio, nothing can touch it

[Jeremy_NSL]

I love Reason as a sound device, but the sequencer is certainly below par:
1. notes dont sound when you place them in the piano roll.
2. zooming in/out is a chore
3. no way to do a count-in bar on midi record
4. damn thing won't zoom to fullscreen!
5. wonky interface for moving/resizing notes

maybe you just need to get used to it.. I certainly wasn't used to Tracktions sequencer when I moved from Sonar, but now its quite efficient.

For me gripes 1 and 3 are deal-breakers for Reason's seq though. With 1, I can't easily program melodies or beats using the piano roll cause I can't hear the notes as I place them. With 3, recording live midi is an incredible hassle. Just my thoughts...

[lucille]

that: "Subtractor can sound just as good as any vst"
line may fly on the Props site, but its unlikely to
get many followers here. Do a search: Reason is often bashed on kvr! Its not just fx, its also
ocillators and filters, and Reason just doesn't
stack up with vst synths. I've down loaded scores of
Reason songs and demo'd every patch set on offer and
--imo--subtractor always sounds very digital and
thin with many artifacts. The only Reason tracks I like are Andreas/ Reason Fan's stuff--which are generally all sample based. However, the NN-Xt,19 are excellent samplers and redrum is is top rate. The ability to load rex files into redrum and play single hits is pretty amazing. Also--imo-- the
sequencer is fine, most people who knock it don't
really understand how it works.

[dten]

Also--imo-- the
sequencer is fine, most people who knock it don't
really understand how it works.

Yes that's exactly why I called it "crap". I suppose I could have phrased it more diplomatically, such as with "In my opinion..." but I think that qualifiers like that can, and should, be taken for granted... everything is in everybody's opinion.

I don't care for Reason's sequencer because I don't know how to do anything with it. The interface doesn't seem to have pop-up help, the icons on the buttons don't mean anything to me, I click various things and can't figure out what's going on.

In comparison: Tracktion was immediately useful to me. Everything was very intuitive and if I didn't know what something did, I just held the mouse over it for a second and it would tell me.

Also, I combine recorded audio with MIDI instruments, so I'm better off using an external host anyway.

But this is heading off topic, just wanted to clarify the reasons for my opinion.

I agree with others that, it sounds to me like Reason and Live are perfect companions, not competitors.

[MidiSwede]

quincy said:

"...but to say that individual reason synths, without extra processing, can beat most VSTi's is stretching the truth a bit."

That's not at all what I'm saying. I said if they are built the same they will sound the same. If you want a Reason device to sound like a good VST then you must add any extra bells and whistles the VST has to the Reason device. Likewise, if you want a VST to sound like a Reason device you must strip all the bells and whistles off of the VST.

Anyway, the last few sentances of my comment are my actual point here: It doesn't matter what kind of softsynths are being compared, if you build them the same they will sound the same. If you put crap in you get crap out. If you put gold in you get gold out.


But I digress, the point here is that Live and Reason are an amazing combo. More accurately and maybe even more to the point Live is a great tool no matter what other software you want to use with it.

Plaudits,

Rob

[nuffink]

1. notes dont sound when you place them in the piano roll.
2. zooming in/out is a chore
3. no way to do a count-in bar on midi record
4. damn thing won't zoom to fullscreen!
5. wonky interface for moving/resizing notes.

1. Bonus. I hate that on other sequencers
2. Windows standard slider
3. I'll give you that
4. Of course it does
5. For me its best point. Standard windows modifiers. Ctrl to copy, shift to constrain. And if a note is offset from the grid it stays that way when you move or copy, so many sequencers snap it to the grid, which is infuriating.

[quincy]

quincy said:

"...but to say that individual reason synths, without extra processing, can beat most VSTi's is stretching the truth a bit."

That's not at all what I'm saying. I said if they are built the same they will sound the same. If you want a Reason device to sound like a good VST then you must add any extra bells and whistles the VST has to the Reason device. Likewise, if you want a VST to sound like a Reason device you must strip all the bells and whistles off of the VST.

Anyway, the last few sentances of my comment are my actual point here: It doesn't matter what kind of softsynths are being compared, if you build them the same they will sound the same. If you put crap in you get crap out. If you put gold in you get gold out.


But I digress, the point here is that Live and Reason are an amazing combo. More accurately and maybe even more to the point Live is a great tool no matter what other software you want to use with it.

Plaudits,

Rob

First off, i am a Rob too. Robs unite

Secondly, i'm not sure i understand what you are saying about "if you build them the same etc..". do you mean "all 2 osc subtractives sound the same" etc?

Anyway, it doesn't matter, most people seem to be in agreement that to compare Reason and Live is innacurate and unfair, whereas to use them together is a genius idea as they complement each other.

I am sold on live after using the demo for 10 minutes! Its brilliant!

[Kriminal]

Hi, newb question here. With the announcement of Live 4, I've seen several people remark that it might even be a replacement for Reason.

Yes, bit like replacing shit with the shovel