So the Propellerhead's forum is down. Post in here if you normally post there.

[zeebot]

Have you tried looking in the FSB? THere is a whole section of guitars in the combinator patches folder. Just tweak the hell out of them

[kae]

Yeah, the "BD" stands for bass drum. It's fantastic that Rob Papen are continuing to develop RE's. Their flagship RE are some of the most expensive in the shop (Predator RE) but sales must be strong enough to compel them to keep going. The whole conspiracy theory that Softube is "in bed" with Props is hogwash, me thinks.

Yep. Reason doesn't need hundreds of 3rd party developers as long as top quality developers like Rob Papen, Synapse Audio, Softube etc. keep supporting it. I am hoping for a few other specific developers though, but I think they may be waiting for a more mature SDK.
Just the presets of Predator is worth the asking price, although I haven't bought it yet myself as Antidote got my full attention at the moment.
A bass drum module seem like a very specialized extension. I probably got thousands of kick samples, like "everybody" else, so it will be exciting to see what else it got up it sleeves.

[SampleSimon]

You have to route the audio using the modulation matrix.
For instance:
Source: Audio in 1 Amount: 100% Dest: Filter 3 Left in
Source: Audio in 2 Amount: 100% Dest: Filter 3 Right in.

Thanks! I'm not familiar with that section of Thor, but your explanation is straightforward and I hooked it up immediately. ALong with the previous tip on using the Malstrom, I'll have a lot of weird audio processing to keep me occupied for a while.

Does anyone have some other tips on what I can do to Reason 7 to create some 'unnatural' guitar sounds? Specifically looking for in-house solutions, not after-market Rack Extensions (although the dual pitch shifter is on my wish list, it won't be for a few months until I buy it)

Just reversing some of the notes always is a cool effect if you dont overdo it. Also there's a lot you can do to the actual guitar. Try sticking little bits of chewing gum on all the strings at the harmonic nodes adn then play an arpeggio!

[KarmaShaman]

You're talking about using guitar amp sims on MIDI tracks ? I do that sometimes, but I really am trying to create nuances in my music that comes from playing an instrument - ie it's the imperfections that I'm after. And with my playing, there's plenty of them !

I'm also kind of keen on making some tracks entirely based on guitar & bass audio recordings, but modifying it so much that it sounds like an electronic song. Alligator goes a long way in doing that, but I'm a bit sick of the predefined rhythms that the thing spits out.

[stroker_ace]

While I'll agree there's always room to improve sales by all of the suggestions mentioned, who's to say that currently sales of RE's aren't doing just smashing right now? Suggesting sales are poor is pure conjecture (about as much conjecture as suggesting they're great)..

No, it's not conjecture. Somebody asked why there wasn't a Zebra 2 rack extension yet, and Urs from U-he replied......

"Because it can't be done and because the process is tedious.

We might do more effects but instruments are a complete no-go in terms of time vs. return.

That said, we've already invested a few thousand bucks in creating a Satin GUI for RE - it requires 3D modeling and proprietary scripting not necessary for other formats. We yet have to see if the actual code compiles, and if it goes through PH's acceptance tests. Things is, this is so expensive and tedious with a bunch of vague things to look out for, Satin RE is our last shot to make RE work for us."

I think it's safe to say that U-he rack extensions aren't "doing just smashing".

[Tronam]

I have a feeling AAX support and 64-bit rewrites have been consuming many developers' time this year, so REs have been put on the back burner until those transitions are complete (including Magnus of SonicCharge). SoundToys and d16 are good examples of companies who want to develop rack extensions, but have been really busy updating all their current products. The plugin world is becoming more fractured than ever and RE is just one example of it. VST3 was released 5 years ago, yet even now the reception to it seems strangely lukewarm and very few hosts beyond Cubase have adopted it. It's very telling that even a brand new host like Bitwig won't include support for it. Logic and Garageband seem like the only major applications that truly justify the existence of AU anymore, but it's not going anywhere as long as Apple keeps supporting it and I suspect iOS will eventually inherit AU as its primary plugin format. AVID has dropped support for TDM and RTAS, so now everyone has had to re-develop for AAX. To a technically clueless outsider like myself, plugin development seems like a bit of a mess to me these days.

[Tronam]

No, it's not conjecture. Somebody asked why there wasn't a Zebra 2 rack extension yet, and Urs from U-he replied......

"Because it can't be done and because the process is tedious.

We might do more effects but instruments are a complete no-go in terms of time vs. return.

That said, we've already invested a few thousand bucks in creating a Satin GUI for RE - it requires 3D modeling and proprietary scripting not necessary for other formats. We yet have to see if the actual code compiles, and if it goes through PH's acceptance tests. Things is, this is so expensive and tedious with a bunch of vague things to look out for, Satin RE is our last shot to make RE work for us."

That's true, but he's also said:

"There is however a lot of positive aspects to RE. The technical implementation shifts much of the every day hassle in a developer's life over to Propellerhead. That's more than what one usually gets for a 30% commission."

The impression I've been getting is that implementing the user interface is the biggest headache with RE development right now, especially for devs trying to port over pre-existing plugins. I had naively assumed that most were already designing their interfaces with 3D modelers these days, but apparently not. If you're still creating bitmap graphic UIs in Photoshop for example, I can easily imagine how tedious and time consuming it would be having to redo all of those interface elements. Other complications arise as well for devs who depend on C++ class extension libraries like JUCE to build their plugins. I think the developers who've had the best success with RE are folks like Selig or Richard (Synapse) who developed brand new plugins specifically for the rack instead of trying to do a 1:1 port of an already existing VST. These are the sorts of plugins that tend to better utilize Reason's strengths and help make the format more attractive. And despite all our forum worries and grumbles, the rack extensions still keep coming and continue to improve. Plenty of good stuff ahead I think.

[AstralExistence]

i love every direction the props have ever took other then rack extensions. i despise them and i despise the idea. i own two. auto arp, and polysix. i refuse to buy anymore as it seems many others until they 1, make rack extensions transferable and 2, fix the utter failure that is the current sdk. with the current sdk, rack extensions use an incredible amount of cpu to the point of not being usable. and yet, the props own plugins do not and are very cpu efficient.

i dont think any of us were ready when the hugely anticipated and long awaited papen predator showed its ugly cpu intensive head. its was comical how much cpu predator used.

i think the props realize though are not ready to publicly admit that rack extensions were a failure. and in many ways they have nobody but themselves to blame. they made numerous bad decisions even after the propellerhead majority had spoken and they have held steadfast to there vision or rather there tyrany.

they refuse to make rack extensions transferable, they require developers to know and understand 3d modeling, they are like night and day cpu wise to there native plugins, they are obnoxiously expensive, they are not a good investment due to not being transferable, a lot of rack extensions are garbage or samey, sdk for developers in its current state is extremely obtuse and not nearly as easy to program and transfer from vst state. (just ask chris randall from audio damage how easy they are to develop and transfer) they compete with reasons native plugins.

yeah, that's a lot of reason to hate rack extension and these problems and complaints have been spoken about in too many propellerhead threads to count. rack extensions suck. and i hope they die a horrible death but more so, i hope that propellerhead change there policies and make rack extensions work for both customer and company because in there current form and with the props current policies they work for neither.

[tapper mike]

I offered that same commentary in instruments. About how bad decisions can lead to more bad decisions and how ego's can hinder project development as well as alienate the user base.

[mr44khz]

i love every direction the props have ever took other then rack extensions. i despise them and i despise the idea. i own two. auto arp, and polysix. i refuse to buy anymore as it seems many others until they 1, make rack extensions transferable and 2, fix the utter failure that is the current sdk. with the current sdk, rack extensions use an incredible amount of cpu to the point of not being usable. and yet, the props own plugins do not and are very cpu efficient.

i dont think any of us were ready when the hugely anticipated and long awaited papen predator showed its ugly cpu intensive head. its was comical how much cpu predator used.

i think the props realize though are not ready to publicly admit that rack extensions were a failure. and in many ways they have nobody but themselves to blame. they made numerous bad decisions even after the propellerhead majority had spoken and they have held steadfast to there vision or rather there tyrany.

they refuse to make rack extensions transferable, they require developers to know and understand 3d modeling, they are like night and day cpu wise to there native plugins, they are obnoxiously expensive, they are not a good investment due to not being transferable, a lot of rack extensions are garbage or samey, sdk for developers in its current state is extremely obtuse and not nearly as easy to program and transfer from vst state. (just ask chris randall from audio damage how easy they are to develop and transfer) they compete with reasons native plugins.

yeah, that's a lot of reason to hate rack extension and these problems and complaints have been spoken about in too many propellerhead threads to count. rack extensions suck. and i hope they die a horrible death but more so, i hope that propellerhead change there policies and make rack extensions work for both customer and company because in there current form and with the props current policies they work for neither.

+10

[Tronam]

So much emotion. You know, Rack Extensions are optional folks. If you don't like them in their current state, then don't buy them and just stick with the Propellerhead devices. All this overdramatic hate/sucks/garbage/failure hyperbole is pointlessly negative. PH spent 5 years developing the RE SDK. It isn't going away and they're releasing all their own devices as REs along with everyone else. It would be silly to assume they're oblivious to the SSE performance issues. I'm sure they know full well and it's in everyone's best interest (including their own) to address these issues as the SDK evolves.

[AstralExistence]

So much emotion. You know, Rack Extensions are optional folks. If you don't like them in their current state, then don't buy them and just stick with the Propellerhead devices. All this overdramatic hate/sucks/garbage/failure hyperbole is pointlessly negative. PH spent 5 years developing the RE SDK. It isn't going away and they're releasing all their own devices as REs along with everyone else. It would be silly to assume they're oblivious to the SSE performance issues. I'm sure they know full well and it's in everyone's best interest (including their own) to address these issues as the SDK evolves.

which is pointless to point out because im not just making up facts. rack extensions in there current from are exactly how i described. your free to give the props credit for there 5 year re development period but it does nothing for the awful resale policies policies or sub par technological level that rack extensions current reside in. and when it comes down to it that's what most relevant in the same way that you can give microsoft credit for the time they spent developing windows 8 but in the end people are not really satisfied or happy with it.

[krucial]

I love every direction Propellerhead have taken and Rack Extention is one of them. I love them and I love the idea. I own quite a few of them including Polysix and AutoArp. I will definately buy a lot more if needed. I dont care about them not being tranferable as I dont sell software as that seems like throwing money into a black hole. I simply buy what I need learn them inside out and make music with them. I have some REs that eat up more cpu than others kinda like how it is in the vst world. The props own plugin are very cpu efficient see Parsec for example.

Rob Papen addressed the huge cpu usage. I am thankful they did that.

I think Props know that rack entensions are an absolute success. Majority of Reason users are very happy we have access to all kinds of tools now in the rack. No more waiting for 3 years to get some new instruments or FX. I respect them for their vision and their take it or leave it approach.

They may one day make REs tranferable. If developers were smart they would be happy to learn a new skill such as 3D modeling. It will make things easeir for them in the future. This benefits them and their customers in the end. A lot of Res are samey or garbade. A lot of vst are samey or garbage. A lot of socks are samey or garbage. The vst3 sdk sucks just ask chris randall and a few more devs who wont bother with it..

Yeah alot of Reason to love Rack Extensions. The fit the rack, they are stable, the prices are right and they are future proof. Little complaints here and there from a small but vocal minority with an axe to grind. I know res are here to stay. Thank god PH went their own way and gave them to us. Rack Extensions rule. Yep some things can be improved but so is every thing in life nothing is perfect.

[EnochLight]

While I'll agree there's always room to improve sales by all of the suggestions mentioned, who's to say that currently sales of RE's aren't doing just smashing right now? Suggesting sales are poor is pure conjecture (about as much conjecture as suggesting they're great)..

No, it's not conjecture. Somebody asked why there wasn't a Zebra 2 rack extension yet, and Urs from U-he replied......

"Because it can't be done and because the process is tedious.

We might do more effects but instruments are a complete no-go in terms of time vs. return.

That said, we've already invested a few thousand bucks in creating a Satin GUI for RE - it requires 3D modeling and proprietary scripting not necessary for other formats. We yet have to see if the actual code compiles, and if it goes through PH's acceptance tests. Things is, this is so expensive and tedious with a bunch of vague things to look out for, Satin RE is our last shot to make RE work for us."

I think it's safe to say that U-he rack extensions aren't "doing just smashing".

Yeah, it's most certainly conjecture - the frame of reference you quoted me on was in reference to whether or not RE's are selling for Propellerhead... not just one dev having issues. Also, you're referencing one dev saying it's costly and tedious. He's one of almost hundreds. Is everyone else having just as much trouble?

*shrugs*

Again, we can ponder it all day here. It's rather fun actually!



Also, U-He may not have smashing sales in RE's with their Uhbik line, but Satin could change that easily. Before their forums went down at Props, there was a very lengthy thread of people excitingly throwing their money down on the table in anticipation of it. Hopefully we'll see it appear someday.

[EnochLight]

I love every direction Propellerhead have taken and Rack Extention is one of them. I love them and I love the idea. I own quite a few of them including Polysix and AutoArp. I will definately buy a lot more if needed. I dont care about them not being tranferable as I dont sell software as that seems like throwing money into a black hole. I simply buy what I need learn them inside out and make music with them. I have some REs that eat up more cpu than others kinda like how it is in the vst world. The props own plugin are very cpu efficient see Parsec for example.

Rob Papen addressed the huge cpu usage. I am thankful they did that.

I think Props know that rack entensions are an absolute success. Majority of Reason users are very happy we have access to all kinds of tools now in the rack. No more waiting for 3 years to get some new instruments or FX. I respect them for their vision and their take it or leave it approach.

They may one day make REs tranferable. If developers were smart they would be happy to learn a new skill such as 3D modeling. It will make things easeir for them in the future. This benefits them and their customers in the end. A lot of Res are samey or garbade. A lot of vst are samey or garbage. A lot of socks are samey or garbage. The vst3 sdk sucks just ask chris randall and a few more devs who wont bother with it..

Yeah alot of Reason to love Rack Extensions. The fit the rack, they are stable, the prices are right and they are future proof. Little complaints here and there from a small but vocal minority with an axe to grind. I know res are here to stay. Thank god PH went their own way and gave them to us. Rack Extensions rule. Yep some things can be improved but so is every thing in life nothing is perfect.

+10.