Live vs. Reason

[MidiSwede]

"all 2 osc subtractives sound the same"

Yeah, that's where I'm coming from but that is still pretty open ended. It is important to realize that just because they are both 2 osc subtractives they will still have several parameters adjusted differently. I don't think we need to discuss every possible parameter here. I can take something fat like Superwave Pro and make it sound like a subtractor if I program it the same. Likewise, I can make a subtractor sound fat like the Superwave Pro if I add the fx and such.

And, oddly enough there does seem to be a large quantity of robs doing "electronic" music.

Rob

[quincy]

"all 2 osc subtractives sound the same"

Yeah, that's where I'm coming from but that is still pretty open ended. It is important to realize that just because they are both 2 osc subtractives they will still have several parameters adjusted differently. I don't think we need to discuss every possible parameter here. I can take something fat like Superwave Pro and make it sound like a subtractor if I program it the same. Likewise, I can make a subtractor sound fat like the Superwave Pro if I add the fx and such.

And, oddly enough there does seem to be a large quantity of robs doing "electronic" music.

Rob

I have to say there rob, i think many people here, especially the developers, will tell you that its not as simple as that. Not all subtractives sound the same. because not all software oscillators sound the same, and nor do all filters, or envelopes etc.

But i know what you mean, so lets not get into an argument. We robs making elecrtronic tracks must stick together

[lucille]

hey rob, or rob. or was it rob...

Download the rgc pentagon demo and step through the
first 20 presets. You'll never touch it with
100 subtractors each with a 2 rv7000's and
3 screams. It just doesn't work that way. Not that
subtractor is cr*p; it has a rather nice crisp ppg-
like digital quality: good for high end and bell
tones, sequence sounds, clavs, etc.

Or...point me to a Reason song with some stomp'm
sub work. regards. rob

[TVD]

For just one moment please....the hell with Reason.

Live 4 might be the potential threat to Sonar3, Cubase SX 2.0 and (brace yourself) Pro-Tools in general.

If this software lives up to at least half the hype, it might be the last real sequencer that I'll ever buy (besides Pro-Tools or Audition for recording live vocals)!!!

Can you believe that???????????

[lucille]

people will fall in love with live and then they
will beat it to death: no real mixer, simplistic
routing, no event editor...i think their will always
be a niche for live and the 'big three'-- it may soon be the `big 4`

[quincy]

For me its not about challenging the other hosts, i don't really give a crap if it has features that beat the others or not.

its about if it can make composition an organic and fun experience. I tend to find that for all the flashy features and precise control that is possible with modern software, there is very little "fun" factor.

I think Live can change this, and its all about the fun for me.

[drez]

I use Reason and Live3. They compliment each other today very well, and when Live4 comes out, they will compliment each other even more.

Reason has a unique sound that makes it an instrument in itself. Lots of people use Reason because they can create amazing sounds that other packages can't. Charlie Clouser, The Crystal Method, Prodigy, BT, all use Reason...and tons of other stuff, but they realize that Reason has its own sound and I think they use it for that purpose.

Other products have generators but I don't think I've ever heard or read about anybody saying, for example, "yeah, I bought Orion for its great sound" . Really, it's a dime-a-dozen sequencer like other middle of the road packages out there that happenes to have some generators that aren't much to write home about . Reason has found a good niche because its sound is its own and people use it because of it.

Now, by combining the power of Live4's MIDI and Audio sequencing abilities that can use VSTi's with the unique sound and routing capabilities of Reason, there's really no point in using the other so called "Loop" based sequencers like FL/Orion. They're complicated, bloated, and really don't offer much that you can't do in Reason, much less Reason+Live and they aren't nearly as stable. I've never had Reason crash on me in two and a half years, and I've always got +100 modules loaded with no problems.

The only other product that is pushing the envelope is EnergyXT and now since you will be able to use it with Live4 as a VSTi and sample it real time, the possibilities are really out there.

[quincy]

I use Reason and Live3. They compliment each other today very well, and when Live4 comes out, they will compliment each other even more.

Reason has a unique sound that makes it an instrument in itself. Lots of people use Reason because they can create amazing sounds that other packages can't. Charlie Clouser, The Crystal Method, Prodigy, BT, all use Reason...and tons of other stuff, but they realize that Reason has its own sound and I think they use it for that purpose.

Other products have generators but I don't think I've ever heard or read about anybody saying, for example, "yeah, I bought Orion for its great sound" . Really, it's a dime-a-dozen sequencer like other middle of the road packages out there that happenes to have some generators that aren't much to write home about . Reason has found a good niche because its sound is its own and people use it because of it.

Now, by combining the power of Live4's MIDI and Audio sequencing abilities that can use VSTi's with the unique sound and routing capabilities of Reason, there's really no point in using the other so called "Loop" based sequencers like FL/Orion. They're complicated, bloated, and really don't offer much that you can't do in Reason, much less Reason+Live and they aren't nearly as stable. I've never had Reason crash on me in two and a half years, and I've always got +100 modules loaded with no problems.

The only other product that is pushing the envelope is EnergyXT and now since you will be able to use it with Live4 as a VSTi and sample it real time, the possibilities are really out there.

Oh dear. Houston, we have a problem.

People don't buy Reason for its "out of the box sound" thats for bloody sure. The generators in orion sound a shite load better on there own than the ones in Reason.

"ooh, these subtractor patches sound really fat". Anyone ever here that? Nope, me neither. And as for the signed artists argument, take it elsewhere son. We've been over this, and you can pick nearly any piece of music software and find a famous artist using it. It doesn't mean shit.

Reason does have its unique routing, and THAT is the selling point. but the sound?! I think not. Let me put it this way, the built-in synths in most host are fatter and more "immediate" to use than reason, but without the routing flexibility.

And as for this crap about creating sounds that can't be done in other packages?! Now you're really taking the piss my friend. There is no sound in any host that can't be re-created in any other host.

I just can't beleive people really think that their software of choice is in some way "magical" and can do wonderous sounds that can't be imitated. Snap out of it man. Next we'll have bones here trying to tell us all that Orion is the only host that can have this "amazing sound" because of the WaspXT. And i'll tell him to shut it too.

[nuffink]

I use Reason and Live3. They compliment each other today very well, and when Live4 comes out, they will compliment each other even more.

Reason has a unique sound that makes it an instrument in itself. Lots of people use Reason because they can create amazing sounds that other packages can't. Charlie Clouser, The Crystal Method, Prodigy, BT, all use Reason...and tons of other stuff, but they realize that Reason has its own sound and I think they use it for that purpose.

Other products have generators but I don't think I've ever heard or read about anybody saying, for example, "yeah, I bought Orion for its great sound" . Really, it's a dime-a-dozen sequencer like other middle of the road packages out there that happenes to have some generators that aren't much to write home about . Reason has found a good niche because its sound is its own and people use it because of it.

Now, by combining the power of Live4's MIDI and Audio sequencing abilities that can use VSTi's with the unique sound and routing capabilities of Reason, there's really no point in using the other so called "Loop" based sequencers like FL/Orion. They're complicated, bloated, and really don't offer much that you can't do in Reason, much less Reason+Live and they aren't nearly as stable. I've never had Reason crash on me in two and a half years, and I've always got +100 modules loaded with no problems.

The only other product that is pushing the envelope is EnergyXT and now since you will be able to use it with Live4 as a VSTi and sample it real time, the possibilities are really out there.

Oh dear. Houston, we have a problem.

People don't buy Reason for its "out of the box sound" thats for bloody sure. The generators in orion sound a shite load better on there own than the ones in Reason.

"ooh, these subtractor patches sound really fat". Anyone ever here that? Nope, me neither. And as for the signed artists argument, take it elsewhere son. We've been over this, and you can pick nearly any piece of music software and find a famous artist using it. It doesn't mean shit.

Reason does have its unique routing, and THAT is the selling point. but the sound?! I think not. Let me put it this way, the built-in synths in most host are fatter and more "immediate" to use than reason, but without the routing flexibility.

And as for this crap about creating sounds that can't be done in other packages?! Now you're really taking the piss my friend. There is no sound in any host that can't be re-created in any other host.

I just can't beleive people really think that their software of choice is in some way "magical" and can do wonderous sounds that can't be imitated. Snap out of it man. Next we'll have bones here trying to tell us all that Orion is the only host that can have this "amazing sound" because of the WaspXT. And i'll tell him to shut it too.

As usual, when people denigrate the Reason sound what they really mean is the subtractor sound.

[drez]

People don't buy Reason for its "out of the box sound" thats for bloody sure.

Actually, everyone does. That's the way it comes. You have the same copy as everyone else and they have the exact same modules as you do. If people can't make good music with it, then the fault is with the owner.

The generators in orion sound a shite load better on there own than the ones in Reason.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on that. I have Orion, and I don't think they are that great, plus you can't do any complex routing with them. With Spiders in Reason, you can make one synth sound pretty incredible.

"ooh, these subtractor patches sound really fat". Anyone ever here that? Nope, me neither.

Actually, I have. Remix Mag had an interview a couple of months ago with The Crystal Method and they talked about how they loved the Subtractor and used it through out Legion of Boom.

But that's not the only synth in Reason, is it. The Malstrom is awesome and its filters are killer. Plus you can run anything you want THROUGH those filters, create crazy loops, etc. I've only seen one song where the guy made every single sound with a Subtractor and it sounded great because he knew how to use the program.

And as for the signed artists argument, take it elsewhere son. We've been over this, and you can pick nearly any piece of music software and find a famous artist using it. It doesn't mean shit.

I think you misunderstood my statement. I was stating that those artists can use pretty much whatever they want but they choose to use Reason AS WELL. If it sounds so bad, then why do they use it?

Reason does have its unique routing, and THAT is the selling point.

Exactly. And that's why its modules sound great.

... but the sound?! I think not. Let me put it this way, the built-in synths in most host are fatter and more "immediate" to use than reason, but without the routing flexibility.

But that's just it...they DON'T have the routing flexibility, and that is what makes the Reason modules sound great. If they sound so bad, why are so many artists using Reason?

And as for this crap about creating sounds that can't be done in other packages?! Now you're really taking the piss my friend. There is no sound in any host that can't be re-created in any other host.

Good luck with that.

I just can't beleive people really think that their software of choice is in some way "magical" and can do wonderous sounds that can't be imitated. Snap out of it man. Next we'll have bones here trying to tell us all that Orion is the only host that can have this "amazing sound" because of the WaspXT. And i'll tell him to shut it too.

I agree, the Wasp does not sound amazing. But what the Reason modules have going for them is the "amazing routing" capabilites that take them to the next level. The Wasp doesn't.

On the flip side, Reason doesn't have z3ta, Rhino, or Vertigo. But neither does Orion. Orion has the benefit of being able to USE those synths and that's great. Reason doesn't, but it doesn't need to. It does what it does extremely well. Now, with Live4 approaching, I would see no reason to use anything other than Live4+Reason with whatever VSTi's you want and let each do what they do best. Live4 looks like it will be the sequencer of choice and Reason will be able to use its strengths right along side rewired in. Best of both worlds.

[lucille]

drez--

I've made this challenge on the props site and
no one has ever responded: can you please post or
name a song on the Reason Board that has what you
consider a quality subtractor patch set up?

[drez]

drez--

I've made this challenge on the props site and
no one has ever responded: can you please post or
name a song on the Reason Board that has what you
consider a quality subtractor patch set up?

Do you have 2.5? I can send you an .rns with, to me, a cool subtractor patch

[gmstudio]

I remember that one song that one guy did using nothing but Subtractor. I don't have it anymore, unfortunately, but it was one of the best songs I've ever heard coming from Reason.

If anyone has a link to that somewhere, it would be most appreciated. It rules.

As does Reason.

Oh, and my middle name is Robert, can I join the "Rob's making electronica" club, too?

[Sicklecell666]

What's the point of even comparing the two? They serve two very different purposes & run together almost deliberately as one app. That has to be the best marriage in digital audio.


edit: oh, & my name's not Rob

[MidiSwede]

hey rob, or rob. or was it rob...

Download the rgc pentagon demo and step through the
first 20 presets. You'll never touch it with
100 subtractors each with a 2 rv7000's and
3 screams. It just doesn't work that way. Not that
subtractor is cr*p; it has a rather nice crisp ppg-
like digital quality: good for high end and bell
tones, sequence sounds, clavs, etc.

Or...point me to a Reason song with some stomp'm
sub work. regards. rob

I'm sorry I ever brought it up. But, I wouldn't have brought it up if I hadn't had success doing it. I've done it and it works. That is all I'm saying. It is that simple. I'm not trying to say that Reason can replace VSTi. It can't and it never will.

I have PentagonI and over 100 other VSTi. PentagonI is one of the best. I love the VSTi that I have. I use them everyday. VST are my "live" instruments along with my hardware synths. While Reason is the core of my writing. Some times a riff on a VST inspires what I get out of Reason. Some times the result is Reason ends up sounding best without the original VST idea. Some times Reason needs a VST in front to make it sound right. Some times VST and hardware synth do the trick without Reason in the mix.

Hey, let's just go make music with Live. Who gives a crap what else we do it with.

Rob