Problem with Time Signature

[Vintage73]

I'll post examples as soon as I can get back into my server, but I'm having a problem with time signatures that I can't figure out.

I have a rhythm in my head right now that, as far as I can tell, is four bars of 4/4 and one bar of 1/8, rinse and repeat.

It works perfectly in my head and when I hear it in my host (and audio file), but it just doesn't seem right to me.

Could this work as the basis of a piece of music, or should I be looking for another time signature?

[vurt]

9/8?

[jancivil]

What seems not-right about it if it seems right to your head and ears? Yes, it can be a viable basis! One of my favorite ragas is in 6 3/4 time (eg., 6 quarters and 3 16ths). And a key idea in it is to have three levels of time at the same time based in that. (the name of the record is "Soul Searcher" )

Don't let convention keep you down! My latest settles down into a cycle of 29, (6+4+3+2) + (4+3+3+4).



and if it's 4/4 + 1/8, that's what it is, it doesn't have to be called something 'simpler'.

[Vintage73]

It just seems really odd to me.

Actually, I've played around with it even more and now it's four bars of 4/4 and one bar of 3/16.

But I guess if it works...

I've always had a hard time with time signatures when I go to sequence what's in my head. Nothing lines up easily...

[jancivil]

One way to sort counting that could be 3 quarters and 3 8ths, 1&2&3&123, ie., if that single 'half beat' or 8th is funky to count. But say in Indian Classical, it's not that weird to call a thing eg., '4 and a half' time, vis a vis 9.

[jancivil]

a hard time with time signatures when I go to sequence what's in my head.

well, work it out with your hands and manifest it completely.

I work out of improvisation most typically and much of what's depicted in that image is after-the-fact determination of what happened. And I change my mind a lot as to how it is framed in the timeline, and depending on what I need for the manifestation of parts. I thought what became 29 was a simple 6+9, but in working out the main ostinato, truncating the second iteration of it was more impactful.

[cryophonik]

I have a rhythm in my head right now that, as far as I can tell, is four bars of 4/4 and one bar of 1/8, rinse and repeat.

When you count it in your head, does it go something like:

1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-AND

..where the last "AND" feels like a tacked-on eigth note, perhaps as a pickup into the next phrase? If, so I'd say that jancivil has nailed it - it is what it is: 4 bars of 4/4 and one bar of 1/8

Or, does the last part of the last line have more of a triplet feel like:

1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and
1-and-a

In this case, I would call it three measures of 4/4, one measure of 3/4, and one measure of 3/8.





edit: oops, I guess I'm typing too slow.

[Vintage73]

Here's my biggest problem with this being such an off-standard time signature...it's supposed to be a celebration piece, which should be easy to dance to, and if I have an extra little bit of time in the beat, that can throw everything off.

But it's how it's working out in my head...

[HaganeSteel]

I'll post examples as soon as I can get back into my server, but I'm having a problem with time signatures that I can't figure out.

I have a rhythm in my head right now that, as far as I can tell, is four bars of 4/4 and one bar of 1/8, rinse and repeat.

It works perfectly in my head and when I hear it in my host (and audio file), but it just doesn't seem right to me.

Could this work as the basis of a piece of music, or should I be looking for another time signature?

33 eighth notes = 11/8 time.

Try that, see if it works. Without being able to hear it, though, it's an almost impossible question to answer.

[jancivil]

I'm assuming the four bars of 4/4 are pretty clearly 4/4 and you have an extra half beat [or now 3/4 a beat] for the turnaround. Do you have a problem dancing to it where it trips you up?

[jancivil]

I take 9/8 as 3/4 + 3/8 in a certain kind of thing that isn't really spastic, but it is a little hard to feature such a thing as party music or made for dancers in a social gathering.

I did a thing based in a Delta blues type of vamp that was in 9 and I don't think people notice the problem like it isn't the usual 6 or 12.

[murnau]

When you count it in your head, does it go something like:

1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-AND

..where the last "AND" feels like a tacked-on eigth note, perhaps as a pickup into the next phrase? If, so I'd say that jancivil has nailed it - it is what it is: 4 bars of 4/4 and one bar of 1/8

but then you have to use 9/8 like vurt wrote - remember that you must write it down (put it in a sequencer) what comes after the tackled 1/8? a pause? how long? or end of the whole phrase? what i read from your words is that 9/8 should work.

maybe an audio demo?

[HaganeSteel]

It just seems really odd to me.

Actually, I've played around with it even more and now it's four bars of 4/4 and one bar of 3/16.

But I guess if it works...

I've always had a hard time with time signatures when I go to sequence what's in my head. Nothing lines up easily...

I didn't see this. If the rhythm in your head is changing that much, then you're probably doing something very, very wrong. At least that's been my experience.

There are two things you could/should do, and they are: Stop making music because your ears might be fatigued. And make a demo of how it is right now and show us.

Other than that, we're all just guessing.

Taking a break and going back to it tonight or tomorrow may make you go, "Ohhh! "

[jancivil]

"but then you have to use 9/8" Why? The distinction between 4/4 + 1/8 and 9/8 there is not necessarily a difference. It could be a time saver .

"what comes after the tackled 1/8? a pause? how long?" It wouldn't be 1/8 if there was more time after it. But as steel implied, it could all be a confusion, which is why I say 'manifest it completely with your hands'. We can get confused. I have worked with a drummer that was doing something complicated out of his head and I made the mistake of telling him what it was and then he started f**king it up.

[cryophonik]

When you count it in your head, does it go something like:

1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-AND

..where the last "AND" feels like a tacked-on eigth note, perhaps as a pickup into the next phrase? If, so I'd say that jancivil has nailed it - it is what it is: 4 bars of 4/4 and one bar of 1/8

but then you have to use 9/8 like vurt wrote

But, 9/8 is a compound triple meter. unless the song has a triplet feel (which presumably is not the case, given that the OP stated that it sounds like four bars of 4/4 time plus an eighth-note [i.e., duple meter]), switching to 9/8 time would have the correct number of eighth-notes, but not the correct beats and divisions. IOW, trying to sequence/score a song with a duple time using a triple meter is not ideal, particularly if the piece is intended to have 16th- or 32nd-notes played "straight". Then again, it's entirely possible that it is indeed a triplet feel - we're sorta stabbing in the dark here without an audio example.

- remember that you must write it down (put it in a sequencer) what comes after the tackled 1/8? a pause? how long? or end of the whole phrase?

You shouldn't need a pause, just an additional bar of 1/8 after every four bars of 4/4. But, again, stabbing in the dark....