Rythmic Gate programming

[BDead]

Not everyone likes the Gates and/or arps wich comes with the typical synth but I find myself wondering how so many cool gated synth leads there are in modern music.

So, if anyone want's to share their ideas and experiences feel free, I spesifically want to hear about the difference in volume gate and expression gate if someone wants to explain that to me:)

How long a pattern can I program without it being to complex is also something I want to hear about.

Actually I want to learn about every aspect of the manual gate programming. Just shoot out whatever you got:)

And guys, I have seen that a couple of these kinda posts being destroyed because of people offtracking the subject, only relevant posts please.. Like that poor sickle666 and his posts on synth style programming, the poor guy didn't get any posts which helped him or anyone else,


so get out your secrets, and if not your deepest secrets at least give us some hints


Ooh, and I use Cubase and make trance music so I'm especially interested in posts of that style... but everything goes


thanx

[PugFace]

To be honest there seems to be very little dedicated to the job trance gate software out there. The clasical gate will have variable pulse width gating with the filter modulation and LFO's operating above and may be some delay too. Large amounts of reverb are required for the big sound stuff. The standard OSC waveform is SAW but pretty novell stuff can be taken from pad samples or pulse or synced oscs. A few VSTis can do it but the best i have found are Vanguard and Albino. Although any FAT synth would be suffice for the raw sound. I find that the ARPs are a little too obvious. In my experience a less harmonious sequence is better but it does need a repeative nature.

The trance gate on Vanguard is a bit basic.

Sometimes i layer two gates on each other or in parallel and vary their amounts and other things like delay amount to give some pleasing tonal changes that bring in various parts of sequences. Playing around with this seems to bring out riffs out of nowhere.

[scuzzphut]

Pugface - I'm working on an update to scuzzphut6 right now. What could I add that would make it more along the lines that you're looking for?

It currently has a pattern based gate, two delays with hp/lp filters and lfos to vary filter cutoff and pan of the delays.

The gating pattern is step entry like a 303/808/909 with ties to make longer openings and attack, decay and shuffle controls.

scuzzphut6 is directly aimed at those who want the "trance-gate" sound.

It predates the trancegates in Discovery and Vanguard by a some considerable time and can , of course, be used on any synth you like.

I realise that it has it's flaws. It's not pretty to look at , has only one pattern and the code is a bit inefficient.

My plans for the update were to make the gui more pleasing and make the code more efficient , but if you have something in particular that you think is missing, please elaborate.

[english]

Really looking forward to your update to scuzzphut6, scuzz You might want to check out ultrachopper from virtual creations (http://www.virtualcreations.de/) It has a cool way where you draw the amount of each of the gates in the window, works very well. Also the new tonic filter that comes with sx2/n2 has a very nice gate/step feature.

I think one important thing that should be added is the ability to choose the amount of gates per bar, 1 all the way to 32 would be very cool.

eng

[PugFace]

I am a big fan of your Software Schuzz. It still is one of my favs in the box. Ties and Accents would be nice addition to the 6. The 6 has some nice filters that seem to give a sort of human voice vowel effect. You may one to concider having two seperate seqs for your filters. Als,o the delay syncing is a bit limited. A few more variations would give the sequences a lift.
In any case, the 6 is great. I have been using it on pads recently to give Tomita style slow phasing effects where the tune comes and goes through the frequency band width. This is great for Symphonic pieces but it certainly ain't fast trance.
I had the 4 and the 5 also.

[scuzzphut]

thanks Pug and English

I'll keep those ideas in mind as I progress with it.

English - your sig is a riot

[scuzzphut]

actually, so is yours, pugface

[Lazlo Minimart]

Hey scuzzphut --

Thanks so much for scuzzphut6 -- I use it a LOT.

However... see my thread about what appears to be a nasty denormal effect in scuzzphut6 on my new P4.

http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46042

Makes me sad. I hope it can be fixed!

Thanks again,
Lazlo

[PugFace]

I am starting to enjoy some of the Sigs here. English's is the best yet.

[vstDOG]

Hi scuzz

First of all let me just say your software rox !
I use scuzzphut6 very often on my trax(PsyTrance) and it's safe to say it's currently the best trancegate VST on the face of the universe
....but even best can become better
I really feel that complex gating hasn't yet been deeply explored in the VST world. There is so much that can be done... some nice ideas have already been suggested by the fine gents/ladies participating in this thread
I recently tried Groove Modulator SynthEdit VSTi (Freeware) by Oli Larkin ( http://www.oli.adbe.org/plugins.htm#gm ) and was very impressed with the vast capabilities of the built in sequencer/gater and the synth itself for that matter (shame the project was abandoned...that's one unique fantastic synth).
...anyway, u might wanna check that synth out scuzz, the roll and slide effects can produce some really cool sounds
Some more features worth considering : slightly thicker filters, more filter types (bandpass, comb...), an LFO controlled bitcrusher, maybe some form of Granular integration to the plug...that could really create some interesting stuff
Wait...there's more
Frequency/pitch-LFO/MIDI controlled modulation...heck why not go for a fully featured modulation matrix ,an infinate pattern randomize function......

oops , I completely forgot we're talking about a gate effect here

Anyway, I must say I'm very excited about this new version of scuzzphut, scuzz and I'm sure it will be nothing short of fantastic

Thanks for making such cool plugins

vstDOG.

[Sicklecell666]

hey scuzz, check out the gate in the micron synth. I just woke up & haven't had my coffee yet, so don't ask me anything intellegent

Unison is in a new beta & he's doing some intresting things with his step sequencer.

Edit: I meant Micron for trancegate, Unison has a step sequencer. COFFEE NOW..

[kritikon]

BDead - I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say expression gating and volume gating? Do you mean the difference between simply completely gating a sound and reducing the volume? Those two are basically the same, but simply using different amounts of expansion. i.e a gate in the generally accepted meaning is completely shutting down the input when a threshold is reached, whereas if you use gentler settings you simply quieten the input instead of closing it.

As for how to do it - several ways.

1. Write in midi CC 7 messages - that way is very regimented and you're stuck with strict steps - but you can gate any sound by sending a midi volume message (value=0) then reopening the gate by sending a midi volume (value=127). But you don't have to use value=0...if you use say value=64, then you simply half the volume dips when you gate.

2. h/w gates - probably the simplest way. Most gates will have threshold and expansion knobs plus attack, hold and release. With the attack hold and release you can set subtle gates that are smooth to trigger and release, or full on gating. Very easy to use, but of course can make things awkward if you're completely in the PC domain without insert points on a desk, or at least a patchbay.

3. Something like Scuzzphut's plugins where there are defined steps to open and close gating.

4. Midi gate plugins. This is possibly the best way to go if you're using Cubase - there is one included with the package called Midigate (amazing, that!). I think there's one out there called Migagate or similar - never tried it myself though. The Cubase one is very good. Off the top of my head I seem to remember it has the usual attack, release and threshold, so it does the full spectrum of gating, and it has a reverse polarity so you can trigger it opposite to the midi messages you send it - good for making a pad or whatever open inbetween drumloop hits but close down when the drums sound.
I mention drumloops because that's a good way to get non-strictly quantized midi patterns to trigger the gate. Either use Recycle, Phatmatik Pro etc and get the midi file from a loop. Or within Cubase, use the get m-points feature on an audio loop->match audio to tempo->groove to midi. Although the sensor within Cubase is not entirely accurate - you need to either move all the m-points forwards a bit or manually draw them in on a long zoom of the audio clip.
Once you've converted to midi you just assign the Midigate to the midi channel you're playing it on and use the settings on the channel you want to gate to get the right type of gating. This way means you're not limited to straight 16ths or 32nds etc. Much more groovy gating.

5. You can actually use a compressor too, as long as it has a sidechain. It won't probably be quite as tight as using a gate, but it works. If you simply compress without using the gain stage to boost the signal, the ducking you get is effectively soft gating. Db procomp springs to mind. Easy to set up, low on CPU, and it has comp/expansion, so you don't even need to go the ducking route. Apply 2 instances - one to send (the trigger source) and one to receive (what you want gated).

As for patterns - that's entirely your choice...make it as long or as short as you want - there are no rules - you can make a gating pattern 3 minutes long if you want to, but that just makes hard work for yourself.

As to what to gate - doesn't matter. Gate anything you feel will benefit by it. You can even gate one drumloop with another one if you must.

The 2 ways I'd most recommend are: h/w - just so easy to do and to set up, but that may not be an option. The other is the Cubase Midigate - you already have Cubase, so why spend on another plugin when you've already got the tool. Midigates are so much more flexible than quantized pattern gates - any rhythm you have can be translated from audio to midi all within Cubase itself. And you can decide whether to completely gate or just dip the volume a bit.

And don't forget that you can gate things like FX. Use a big cavernous reverb, but record it 100% wet on a different channel to your source sound - then gate it rhythmically - then gate the source sound 180 degrees opposite. You get your pad (or whatever) chopping out, and when it chops out the reverb chops in, then when the reverb chops out your pad chops back in again. Lots of neat tricks like that. Or use a gate to make a delay type FX from a reverb - use the envelopes on the gate to even make it a reverse reverb delay. Or gate the verb, record again to audio and reverse it. Use a gate to duck pads etc during drum hits to let the snares etc shine through. Gate your bassline with kicks to tighten up the bass end. Simply use a gate to sharpen drumloops by chopping the reverb off the hits. Or use a gate to chop out the drum hits and leave the FX that were on the loop. Quite frankly - you can use gates for far more creative things than making cheesey gated stabs which have been done over and over again.

Hope some of that helps and remained on-topic?

[BDead]

Kritikon wrote:
BDead - I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say expression gating and volume gating? Do you mean the difference between simply completely gating a sound and reducing the volume? Those two are basically the same, but simply using different amounts of expansion. i.e a gate in the generally accepted meaning is completely shutting down the input when a threshold is reached, whereas if you use gentler settings you simply quieten the input instead of closing it.

Well, I kinda hoped that you guys would tell me that I read a tutorial on ComputerMusic about gating and it was really terrible, they didn't go deep at all!! But they mentioned that gating wasn't just about volume control, you could also use expression to gate the signal.. I just sat there like the biggest ? in the world, I could strangle the guy which wrote the article, what is the point of writing something without explaining what it's about???

I am a educated soundengineer and are wellknown with harware stuff, with all the pro's and con's that mean.. I have also been using Cubase since v.3.7 but haven't gotten around to learning all that about manual gating, I've just used the ones in the synths..

I have tried the MIDI gate and it's fine, the only thing is that you can't program patterns...

Thank you Kritikon for a looooong post, you really know alot dude

Have a nice weekend ya all!

[Motion]

Hi BDead.....have a go on this beauty.....it does patterns,4 gates etc and loads more..about £35 quid.There is a demo available.

Go here....http://www.digitallunarsea.co.uk/~anarchy/

[Motion]

Ooops!!!Sorry BDead forgot to say...it's Anarchy Rhythms,there is also a few good little reviews about it also on the site