KVR Audio

burkowitz · Post by **burkowitz** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:39 pm

currently I am using an Edirol UA-25 audio interface. (Currently using a Windows 7 Tower, but i also use macs sometimes, and may go back to using macs again in the future.) I am thinking about upgrading to something better, to advance from 2x2 i/o to something like 4x4 or more, so I can try out this hand me down Lexicon reverb rack unit I have, and possibly other external effects.

i read the thread on soundcard advice.. I am on a budget and don't really want to break the bank but I still obviously don't want to buy a piece of crap. Someone said Steinberg and Roland where good makes for mid level interfaces.

I am looking at the Steinberg UR28M
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UR28M/

i've never used steinberg before and at first look Im not sure if I'm crazy about the layout, but it seems like it would suit my needs.

for less money though I was also looking at units from M-Audio and Akai
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MTrackQuad/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EIEPro/

It seems like the main difference is more outputs on the steinberg, and I get the impression that steinberg is a more trusted name than maudio and akai for usb audio interfaces? Like I should expect a higher quality product from steinberg?

the roland octa-capture is also looking like an attractive option
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OctaCapture
but i think its starting to be a little bit more than what I'm looking to spend.

I am also wondering if there is a big difference between these units in the way they colour the sound.. like if I record my hardware synth direct in, are some interfaces going to give me a better sound in terms of being rich and punchy? I suppose ideally you would want the recording to be true to the sound of the instrument, and afterwords you could adjust it to your liking with EQs and whatever. I am just wondering if there are ones I should avoid that would colour the recorded sound making it sound more "thin" than what you would want. I use a Nord Lead 2 and sometimes I wonder if its the nature of Virtual Analog that sometimes it sounds a bit too thin and tin canny.. or if id get a better sound out of it if I was using it on different interface from what i have now (the UA-25)

DSPDiva · Post by **DSPDiva** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:09 pm

Actually, I'd pick the Scarlett 6i6 over all of those interfaces.

It's got good quality conversion, clean pres and enough I/O to fit your needs. All for less than most of those. Focusrite is known for it's quality interfaces. You know you'll be getting a good product when you buy from them, plus it comes with a free bundle of plugins, a copy of Ableton in case you feel like learning it and good customer service should you ever have a problem with it.

burkowitz · Post by **burkowitz** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:53 pm

thanks.. yeah actually after some more research I was looking at the focusrite 6x6.. it was pretty much coming down to that or the akai. the akai seems like it has more bells and whistles (4x mic inputs + 4x audio inserts.. possibly gimmicky things like VU meters and USB hub) but I read that the customer support from akai isn't so great.. And I dunno sometimes when you get so many features like that on a low price point I am just suspicious that they cut corners somewhere. also I think aesthetically I like the fact that the scarlett is clean and simple where the akai looks kind of big and clunky with alot going on. also the 2 headphone jacks on the focusrite might come in handy if i am recording a jam with my friend and we don't have a pair of monitors set up to listen back on. I guess if I wanted to record 4 mics in I could do that on the focusrite I would just need to invest in a couple more mic preamps..

some newbie questions...
can someone explain the difference between "audio insert" and "line in"

what is SPDIF used for?

Panphobia · Post by **Panphobia** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:43 pm

Not to throw a wrench into thongs, but my Presonus Audiobox 22VSL is awesome, I replaced a m-audio interface and there is a world of difference in quality. They make a 44VSL if you need more I/O, and some other interface-type thingies depending on your needs. It has pretty good preamps considering the price and sounds great. It is in the price range of some of these other interfaces that you are talking about.

Also m-audio has horrible customer service. They were polite enough, but were never able to fix my problem (bsod from shoddy drivers).

SPDIF is just another type of I/O, its easier to look it up on wikipedia than for me to explain it: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=S/PDIF

Insert/line: I think you mean instrument vs mike input? Some interfaces let you switch between the two on the same port. Don't worry about it too much, just switch it to the correct setting (like, "instrument" if a keyboard is input for example). Best to read the documentation that comes with the interface first.

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:04 pm

If you foresee jam sessions, needing more mic inputs and like the idea of dual headphone outputs then why not see if you can track down a Saffire Pro 40? You'll need a firewire card if you don't have a socket already, but I bought a PCI one for about £10 and it works just fine, has done for years.

I'm running a Liquid Saffire 56 now, and I have to say that Focusrite customer support is second to none. Fast, courteous and incredibly knowledgeable.

The Saffire 40 can be expanded further via ADAT too.

burkowitz · Post by **burkowitz** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:20 am

I asked someone I know that's into recording if there where any specific brands to stay away from and he said not to get a presonus. I'm not sure how qualified of an authority he is though...

my question about the audio insert vs line input.. i was just wondering because on the akai it has 4x mic/line in on the front and then 4x "audio insert" on the back. I am guessing that's just another name for line in?

I guess i was just confused about SPDIF because I don't have much gear that makes use of it, haven't really come across it too often.

yeah i can see the saffire pro 40 being a good route to go if I stick a firewire card in my pc.

Right now I think I am more focused on trying to make electronic music.. mostly on the computer but with a bit of external gear.. upgrading my audio interface so i can start using some external effects..

If i got the saffire pro... I could think about actually micing my friends drumset properly. But of course I would also need to invest in a bunch of mics for the drums. And then there's the fact that my friend isn't really happy with the sound of toms etc, like maybe we need new skins or to upgrade to new tom drums. Its tempting to think about going a step further and getting into something more pro with 8 mic inputs or more.. But I would have to dig deeper into the wallet and it opens up a can of worms in terms of how huge my potential studio gear shopping list would end up being... I'll keep the saffire pro 40 in mind though, in case i do decide to go that route.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:05 am

Steinberg all the way in That price range

DSPDiva · Post by **DSPDiva** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:19 pm

burkowitz wrote:I asked someone I know that's into recording if there where any specific brands to stay away from and he said not to get a presonus. I'm not sure how qualified of an authority he is though...

my question about the audio insert vs line input.. i was just wondering because on the akai it has 4x mic/line in on the front and then 4x "audio insert" on the back. I am guessing that's just another name for line in?

I guess i was just confused about SPDIF because I don't have much gear that makes use of it, haven't really come across it too often.

yeah i can see the saffire pro 40 being a good route to go if I stick a firewire card in my pc.

Right now I think I am more focused on trying to make electronic music.. mostly on the computer but with a bit of external gear.. upgrading my audio interface so i can start using some external effects..

If i got the saffire pro... I could think about actually micing my friends drumset properly. But of course I would also need to invest in a bunch of mics for the drums. And then there's the fact that my friend isn't really happy with the sound of toms etc, like maybe we need new skins or to upgrade to new tom drums. Its tempting to think about going a step further and getting into something more pro with 8 mic inputs or more.. But I would have to dig deeper into the wallet and it opens up a can of worms in terms of how huge my potential studio gear shopping list would end up being... I'll keep the saffire pro 40 in mind though, in case i do decide to go that route.

Yes, I've worked with several presonus units and they suck. I always have problems, especially with drivers and I'm not a fan of the pres or the conversion. Focusrite is definitely better with all 3 of those.

Inserts completely bypass the input section so it's NOT an instrument in, it bypasses the entire preamp section.

SPDIF is more I/O

And I suggested the scarlett because it's usb. The Scarlett and Saffire lines are about the same quality pres and conversion, just one is firewire and the other is usb. So if you really need more mic pres, you could go for the 18i20. I like the scarlett line and their most expensive unit is $500. You can't really beat that.

martygras · Post by **martygras** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:48 pm

The audio inserts on the back of the AKAI EIE are unbalanced effects inserts which mean you send and receive the mono signal from an external effect (eq/reverb/compressor/etc.) and it comes right back into the same channel.
It's for external processing before it gets to the analog to digital conversion stage.

Also: Go to the Focusrite forums and see if there are people using the Scarlett the way you want to and are they having any issues.

The AKAI looks very straightforward though.
I may end up with one depending on cash flow at Christmastime.

bedjka · Post by **bedjka** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:01 pm

QUOTE: Steinberg all the way in that price range.

The Scarlett an the Akai are good but the Steinberg UR/MR just are in an other league.

A new one is coming out
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/au ... /ur44.html

burkowitz · Post by **burkowitz** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:39 pm

after spending some time thinking about it.. I am pretty sure that I am going to get a focusrite 18i20. Might as well make a decent step up in my upgrade and get something with a decent number of inputs/outputs.. at first I was thinking it would be overkill as I am mainly doing electronic stuff.. But I am getting into using external hardware, and I am excited to be able make use of my nord lead 2's option to run 4 different sounds through 4 different outputs so I can mix each one independently.. It would also give me plenty of space to set up a couple external hardware effects like this lexicon reverb rack I want to try out.

I am just wondering, do places that sell audio interfaces ever have big sales on this kind of stuff on boxing day? Is it worth it to try to wait to get this unit on sale? Or maybe boxingday they they usually just put other kinds of items on sale.. and nice audio interfaces only get marked down when they get discontinued? I kind of missed the cyber monday sale... on cyber monday i was looking at a 6i6 for $80 off usual price, but glad i didn't jump on that deal because I have got my sights on the 18i20 now.

basically looking for someone to say "its probably not going on sale" so I can feel good about running out to spend the $500 on it.

burkowitz · Post by **burkowitz** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:42 pm

ok picking one up in a few days.. they have 30 days price protection so i should be good..

one thing I was wondering though...
the focusrite scarlett 18i20 has preamps on all it's mic line inputs?
that sounds pretty good, but I was wondering, I inherited an old rack guitar preamp, thinking of giving it a try on the audio interface. I was wondering if you need to bypass the built in preamps somehow.. Or if it's ok to run a guitar preamp into focusrites mic/line input with built in preamp.

I have never actually used this rack guitar preamp unit before.. i'm really just interested in giving it a try to see if it's useful to me.

burkowitz · Post by **burkowitz** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:27 pm

picked up a focusrite scarlett 18i20.. spent many hours yesterday testing it out.. seems really nice. I was having a problem with it losing USB connection though (like every 60 minutes or so).. I've tried putting it on a different USB port.. I think that is making a difference. Its probably something to do with the focusrite not wanting to be on the same "bus" or "channel" (not sure of the right word..) as my usb keyboard/mouse. The current drivers seem like they do a decent job when I have it plugged into my computers USB3 port.

But yeah the preamps do sound a lot nicer than the ones on the old edirol UA-25 box i was using. Also better quality headphone amp (the one on the UA-25 was pretty shit), and noticeable difference in how the unit drives my monitor speakers.. (I actually didn't mind the sound of the edirol through monitors though.. the focusrite seems to behave a bit differently.. its very quiet until you turn the output volume to about 40-50%.. on the edirol you'd get a similar volume at 25% I guess this is good though with the focusrite if you want to find a "sweet spot" for quiet monitoring.. still sounds pretty good when you crank it up a bit though).

next thing to do, I'm going to set this old lexicon reflex reverb up with it, to see how that sounds. I think i have vague memories of hearing the thing in my dad's studio when I was a kid.. but its just been sitting around the house not being used for years. So yeah excited to get that going as an external effect that I can try applying to the music I'm making.

moving up from entry level audio interface