Anyone using a DJ contoller, Deckadance, VST plugins & MIDI keys, to perform their own music live?

[optofonik]

I'm wondering if anyone is using such a setup live.

I can't imagine this is a terribly original idea but I searched and couldn't find anything specific. I realize Traktor is highly regarded DJ software for it's versatility and performance features but it doesn't host VSTs and, as versatile as it is, doesn't seem suited to such such a scenario.

I was thinking that a four-deck DJ controller/software combination would allow me put together a performance using stems (created in Cubase) with a couple of keyboards, one to trigger samples & loops (using Kontakt) and another for realtime keyboard playing (using Absynth, Iris, Harmor, etc.). I already have the keyboards, and DAW software so would only need an inexpensive DJ controller. Altogether it seems a less expensive proposition than the obvious choice and has less of a learning curve. Both Deckadance and VDJ will host VSTfx but Deckadance seems the only one to host VSTi; Deckadance was born out of a DAW and it seems to show.

Ableton would seem the obvious choice here but there is a learning curve (I'm not saying it's not worth the time and effort to learn) and Deckadance will run as a VST inside Ableton so I could add Ableton and Push to the mix at a later date.

Using stems does come dangerously near to the "pre-recorded tracks" thing but using a DJ controller sort of mitigates that perception to the point of validating the use of stems.

[awol9000]

Deckadance 2 was designed with the Behringer CMD line in mind.

Another option is taking a look at Traktor's F1 controller and remix deck functions. Tracktor does midi clock out so you could sync with Cubase.

[roon]

Actually, some (long) time ago man called Amon Tobin did his stuff like that, more or less. He had his music in short stems and he played it via final scratch/tractor combo. I believe he added some live stuff later on.

In my short and brief period when I was playing some original material with mc we did it basically just like that - set of basic dj decks + reloop spin, short stems of audio material, mpc 500 for samples (including all sorts of earlier made 'spontaneous' riffs) and bunch of monotrons did the trick perfectly. Only thing mc was a bit s**tty, to be honest

But regarding the latter, live part of your set up - I would realy think it over - there's a lot of gear in there. Personally, I'd be lil bit affraid that I will get lost in there. Too many variables and different parts to control at any given moment. I know You wish to be as 'live' as possible, but my advice is to reconsider and maybe slim down Your set up a little. Seriously, it can get messy.

[optofonik]

Actually, some (long) time ago man called Amon Tobin did his stuff like that, more or less. He had his music in short stems and he played it via final scratch/tractor combo. I believe he added some live stuff later on.

In my short and brief period when I was playing some original material with mc we did it basically just like that - set of basic dj decks + reloop spin, short stems of audio material, mpc 500 for samples (including all sorts of earlier made 'spontaneous' riffs) and bunch of monotrons did the trick perfectly. Only thing mc was a bit s**tty, to be honest

But regarding the latter, live part of your set up - I would realy think it over - there's a lot of gear in there. Personally, I'd be lil bit affraid that I will get lost in there. Too many variables and different parts to control at any given moment. I know You wish to be as 'live' as possible, but my advice is to reconsider and maybe slim down Your set up a little. Seriously, it can get messy.

Thanks, roon. I had given up on anyone answering my question. How simple a setup would you suggest so it wouldn't just be playing back re-recorded tracks?

It's funny you mentioned the Monotrons. I got each of my nieces and nephews a little gift package for Christmas that includes a CD from Krafwerk, Moby, Tangerine Dream, and myself, a Monotron (each one gets a different flavor), and the book, "What's a Synthesizer?: Simple Answers to Common Questions", by Emile Menasche & Jon F. Eiche. I had no idea about the Monotrons until I started shopping for a gift idea for them. I almost bought a couple for myself. An MS20 filter in a $40.00 box; it's a great time to be an electronic musician.

[roon]

Thanks, roon. I had given up on anyone answering my question. How simple a setup would you suggest so it wouldn't just be playing back re-recorded tracks?

I think there, right there is your mistake - making your show based solely on stems may not be a bad thing, not necessarily. I mean, You can do it in many ways: you can just slice and dice your tracks and mix them which may be boring and not very creative to say at least, or you can prepare for example basic backing track stems for every major part of every song which will consist of, say, drums and bass or whatever with all other voices and instruments as a separate files. This way you can jam very easily, especially if you'll go with 4-track dj solution. Yes, there still are some limitations, but frankly - there always are some. The biggest one - the one which people tend to forget about - is that we, humans have only two hands Having few keyboards, maybe drum controller, some effects such as kaoss pad or something AND a DJ rig present all at the same time with only one human to operate may end up in a one huge mess. So be warned. I'm not saying that this is impossible because i know it is not, but it will be hard - to say at least.
Other thing I would worry about is software - to many separate programs runing independently on one machine may be to heavy even for modern cpu. And during live sessions you do not want that, obviously. If system crashes it's like world's ending. Believe me, I've been there. Using more computers may be solution, but there will be some sync problems and stuff, no doubt. And personaly I think that it's much better to have a backup PC present rather than two simultaneous systems working together providing more and more complications. And everything has to be as clean and simple as possible.

What I would do is I would get myself a NI maschine and run it as a standalone. This way you eliminate the need of having external sampler, some basic rudementary FX processor and maybe even the DJ software if you spin things right - if You prepare your stems propperly you can make Maschine handle that too, but tbh it will be more like mpc jamming than anything else. If you wish to go with Deckadance eitherway it can still be hosted inside NI gear.
Maschine is capable of hosting both VST FX and instruments, so you are ready here. What's more You can plug in external keyboard to gain control over you synths but main interaction will be handled by uberawesome Maschine controller. Everything in one place, right under your fingers. I've seen live sets with Maschine before and it seems that it's good, trustworthy solution.
This way clutter (both hard- and software) is mimimised a little and DAW handling some of the tasks will free some resources up that would be otherwise given to numerous vsts.
So if you can afford buying another piece of gear and spend some time to learn how to work with it I would do just that.

Hope it'll help.
(And sorry for my messy english - it got bit rusty over the time )

[optofonik]

Roon, thank you so much for the well considered response. NI keeps coming up in my research and the setup you describe is similar to what I thought might be a better solution than Deckadance, MPC style vs DJ style performance.

The fact that Deckadance can run as a VSTi make the best of both worlds possible and would allow me, perhaps, to consider a more basic "DJ controller" since Maschine would be running as sort of a main controller. A little reorintation of my perspective on this is on order.

BTW, your English is fine. Thanks again.

[allofdrab]

Hey optofonik;

looks like you got some well-considered, experienced advice from roon regarding the approach to live performance you were considering pursuing.

I'll just add two observations I had when first exploring the capabilities of Deckadance, as I too quite like it.

Both were main selling points for me (along with it having a plugin version), as they showed me it packed more expressive power than it initially appeared, and I started imagining it could be all I needed in a performance (given the range of expressiveness I tend to shoot for).
I imagine you may have had similar or the same observations, but I'll post mine just in case you haven't and they're of some value to you.

The first is that I found Deckadance's QWERTY keyboard (keyboard shortcut) integration offered a lot of expressive control that pointer/cursor-only control didn't, and after practice I found it well thought-out.
In case you haven't seen it, here is a link to the Deckadance Keyboard Shortcuts page:
file:///Library/Application%20Support/Image-Line/Deckadance2/help/html/deckadance_keyshortcuts.htm

I also really appreciated Deckadance's MIDI assignment options, and the ease with which assignments can be made.
Deckadance really offers a lot of options for approaching it as an instrument capable of being controlled in intuitive, immediate ways; depending of course on the range and type of expressiveness you can get out of your MIDI controller.
In case you're interested, here's a nifty Deckadance 2 controller someone made with Lemur (for iPad):
http://liine.net/en/community/user-library/view/376/