practicing triads and interesting pattern when expanding strings to the side

[kenax]

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Hi, I've been teaching myself viola and have put together my thoughts at
http://001yourtranslationservice.com/me ... esson.html (http://001yourtranslationservice.com/me/music/viola-and-violin-introductory-lesson.html)
I expanded the strings on either side and have discovered an interesting pattern, wondering what theorist would think about it. For now I'm practicing certain triads, like C and Am, since the C is the same as Am going down the scale (descending), but wondering if an Am7 would mean a C7 descending and all I would have to do is to drop the 7th on the Am scale (meaning the G# drops to a G) while ascending and the 7th on the C (B to Bflat) while decending? Have played on many instruments but never really studied theory until now.

[Aroused by JarJar]

The page is very nicely done, lots of information quickly and cleanly presented, and *legible*, which is great.

Approaching fingering string instruments with necks in "boxes" as you are doing is an ancient approach, in fact it's built into the way string instruments are traditionally set up, which except for the one Pythagorean ditone on a Spanish-tuned guitar, and open tunings on slide guitars, is almost always open fourths and fifths, and has certainly been so for at least a thousand years, and probably a lot longer.

But ask yourself this: why do these string instruments not have frets? It is because in orchestral music, and many folk musics, C# and Db (for example) are many times NOT the same note or pitch. And even the same note on paper may be a different pitch depending on its function in the music. How they differ depends on the music, the era of the music's origin, the historical style, and the artistic preferences of the performer and conductor.

Nowadays this is something people usually learn after playing a long time, but it is such a basic thing that it should be taught from the very beginning, as it was in the old days. We still have Mozart's instructions for his string students, instructions he learned from his father, on this (sharps lower than flats, if I recall correctly, which is the other way around from how you'd play, for example, 19th-Century Romantic music).

So, you are actually designating a little *region* for, say, C#,Db,B###, etc., not an exact spot. (Unless you're doing 12-tone serial music)

[kenax]

yah, never really understood how a C#, for example, is not the same as a Dflat, but fortunately I got good ears and generally follow the melodies going on in my head, so I assume I'm hitting the right spot. Last night a girl said I put her into a trance for two minutes while I was playing, so that was a very nice compliment. The greek guy I was playing with played a lot with Am7 and really sounded nice, so was hoping to find out if I just drop the 7th as I suggested.

[MadBrain]

Hi, I've been teaching myself viola and have put together my thoughts at
http://001yourtranslationservice.com/me ... esson.html
I expanded the strings on either side and have discovered an interesting pattern, wondering what theorist would think about it. For now I'm practicing certain triads, like C and Am, since the C is the same as Am going down the scale (descending), but wondering if an Am7 would mean a C7 descending and all I would have to do is to drop the 7th on the Am scale (meaning the G# drops to a G) while ascending and the 7th on the C (B to Bflat) while decending? Have played on many instruments but never really studied theory until now.

Am7 (A C E G) is normally matched to Cmaj7 (C E G B) instead of C7 (C E G Bb). Normally you should play A natural minor over Am7 instead of melodic minor, since G# would clash against the G in the chord. You'd switch to melodic or harmonic minor (with the G#) when playing over something like E7 (usually the last chord in the progression, which has the G#).

The 7th minor chord with the G# is called Am maj7 (A C E G#) and is kinda rare outside of jazz.

Usually I just think of minor as "natural minor but sometimes raising the 7th and/or the 6th". So A minor is A B C D E F G, with F# and G# sometimes replacing F and G depending on the chord progression (a chord with F# or G# forces these notes up, except in jazz when intentionally playing G over a chord that has G#). It also depends on song character or style - the more "pop" the song is, the more likely I'll completely skip over F# and G# and just use F G all the way. It's also possible to raise F# but not G (this is called the "Dorian mode").

Note : classical music uses different chord symbols.

[jancivil]

wondering if an Am7 would mean a C7 descending and all I would have to do is to drop the 7th on the Am scale (meaning the G# drops to a G) while ascending and the 7th on the C (B to Bflat) while decending?

I'm confused by this sentence more than once, which isn't me and I think it needs translating.

I don't know what 'C7' has to do with Am7 through itself or through Am7, where that entered the picture. 'C7 descending', not sure what to do with that as it looks like you have a particular scale attached to a chord [C7] or for you 'C7 means a scale'. Apparently your 'C7' contains the note Bb. Which isn't a property of 'A minor' scale in any of its forms. You seem to want to do that Bb and you want a justification in 'music theory' terms? Why bother? 'All you have to do' is what you like. But, should you want to make something conventional in some way, you become intimate with the ideas and terms that formed the convention. You want to talk about 'music theory', well we need a context. I don't know what you want.

'A minor scale', there are three forms of. The G# is, first of all (typically, ie., to a certain conventionality in the west) a function of a harmony 'in A minor'; ie., the 'V chord' aka 'dominant', which is E [major] (or another derived 'dominant' type of harmony such as G# B D).

But you appear to be improvising over two chords, that don't change dramatically, a rather static climate; so you might be interested in 'modal' approaches.
Do you need seven notes? What is your default position? 'A natural minor' or the same white key tones as C major?
If your basis is in the two given chords, here are four tones. They're vanilla, they never give you a clash. What is the meaning of say F natural, then? What does it do if you dwell on it? What are the necessity, for you, of say the three other tones in a seven note scale. Scales are a means to an end. What do F, or D, or B (or Bb? why not?) do against the chord per se for you? Running a scale, well what are you conveying with it, what was your meaning?

Why that scale, then? It isn't like you must have this name 'A minor scale' or what-have-you or you're not doing music. It's a convention. You probably want B-Bb-A in a row for a certain mood or color. We can call that something but that naming brings in convention. In itself it's not primary.
But, one can have five notes, or six as our default or even as our entire world (going to be bold and say four seems not enough). What informs the choices you're making, what music are you emulating and what are the terms of it. Et cetera.
Food for thought.