Yamaha now owns Line6

[VitaminD]

They are sure gobbling the musical instrument manufacturers..

First Sequential Circuits.. then Korg (which then somehow bought themselves out of that arrangement).. then Steinberg.. then Bösendorfer.. now Line6.

I wonder if this means we'll see some Line6 modeling in Cubase ?

[paradiddle]

That's what I was thinking also about cubase.

[goldenanalog]

They are sure gobbling the musical instrument manufacturers..

First Sequential Circuits.. then Korg (which then somehow bought themselves out of that arrangement).. then Steinberg.. then Bösendorfer.. now Line6.

I wonder if this means we'll see some Line6 modeling in Cubase ?

This could be extremely cool-my future vision is seeing a lot less hardware and a lot more software (not that much hardware is bad, but perhaps some of it becomes wholly unnecessary as CPU power keeps on increasing). Consider the present # of Line6 'packages' that likely all run variations of the same code.

Enter The Cubase L6 package. Or the Cube L6 add-on. Very cool, indeed!

[Compyfox]

You're sh*tting me, right?

Time to grab all free possible upgrades while it's still possible to do so and run! Hardware wise, Line6 is still in the game, but software wise - GearBox/PODfarm is literally standing still.

As long as I can still get a (possible) PODfarm 2.5 upgrade for my GuitarPort, I will get it the next days. You can't upgrade from v1 (iLok) at a discount anyway... so let's just try to get what's possible before the takeover is in full pursuit, prices go sky-high, and certain mddules will be dropped.


I don't want any "Yamaha bought" stuff in Cubase, Cubase is bloated as is already. But seeing which design direction Cubsase and certain Yamaha products are going... thanks, but I'll highly pass.


Thanks for this info. Time to tripple backup now.

[VitaminD]

no jokes.. check the front page of kvr in the news section.. happened yesterday it appears.

[bmrzycki]

Hrm...Line 6 is the North American distributor of Reason. Wonder if that'll stop soon.

Also makes me wonder about the amp simulator devices in Reason, along with its support of purchasing other simulations.

I'm curious to see how that will pan out.

[egbert]

Interesting. Yamaha have good guitar amp modelling technology of their own and have been rumoured to be coming out with something like a rack version of their THR10 stuff - I was wondering if anything would be shown at NAMM next month. If their in house stuff was strong it begs the question - why do they need Line6? It could be simply grabbing market share, I guess. Big jap companies have been buying out their competition on a regular basis since God was a boy - eg Sony bought a significant chunk of the upstart AIWA back in the day when they made good "walkman" type players.

With their Line6 acquisition we could perhaps see Yamaha and Line6 amp sim technology and product ranges merging into one - possibly under the Line6 name or maybe Yamaha's. Perhaps we'll see it in some decent products.

[VitaminD]

I'm curious to see how that will pan out.

Likely via Pan Control Law..

[Aleatoriac]

I'm curious to see how that will pan out.

Likely via Pan Control Law..

And now my morning laughter is complete! TY

[goldenanalog]

You're sh*tting me, right?

Time to grab all free possible upgrades while it's still possible to do so and run! Hardware wise, Line6 is still in the game, but software wise - GearBox/PODfarm is literally standing still.

As long as I can still get a (possible) PODfarm 2.5 upgrade for my GuitarPort, I will get it the next days. You can't upgrade from v1 (iLok) at a discount anyway... so let's just try to get what's possible before the takeover is in full pursuit, prices go sky-high, and certain mddules will be dropped.


I don't want any "Yamaha bought" stuff in Cubase, Cubase is bloated as is already. But seeing which design direction Cubsase and certain Yamaha products are going... thanks, but I'll highly pass.


Thanks for this info. Time to tripple backup now.

Sometimes: it's all about an infusion of cash. We don't know the internals, but it's certainly possible that L6 stalled out, or maybe has spread itself too thin.

So far: the recent Roland/Cakewalk love affair looks ok...

If L6 offerings were pruned down to just the top sellers, and support continued for all the previous stuff for a reasonable length of time, that wouldn't be too bad, would it?

I think about Lexicon ( in fact: bought one of their bundles this past black Friday) if at least L6 code stays around for the long run...yeah, I get the arguments, but some of L6's IP sounds pretty good, and more choices in a daw enviroment usually doesn't hurt.

I personally really like the idea of integrating L6 content into Cubase-L6 code is probably all dsp, so it's probably pretty darn small.

This whole software increase/hardware decrease cycle(?) is bound to produce some casualties, my hope is that especially digital efx-based hardware that many have liked and still like is reborn and continues on in software form.

[egbert]

Amp sim code in Cubase is not going to make a significant financial difference to Yamaha. Amp sims in hardware form are big business comparatively. I think this is more about hardware units with the code embedded.

[goldenanalog]

Amp sim code in Cubase is not going to make a significant financial difference to Yamaha. Amp sims in hardware form are big business comparatively. I think this is more about hardware units with the code embedded.

I see it as: buying a competitor, an established well-known name, IP, and management & product line restructuring.

The question is: how much L6 software will they sell versus L6 hardware?

Here's an interesting example: Waldorf Largo (software) and Waldorf Blofeld (hardware) share much in common, but many will buy Largo over Blofeld even though Blofeld is not that much more. Absolutely cost *is* a factor, but it may also be a lot about how people currently think-ITB, and all that.

Trendlines.

[VitaminD]

I'm curious to see how that will pan out.

Likely via Pan Control Law..

And now my morning laughter is complete! TY

You're quite welcome.. but I won't give up my day job.


About the topic discussion.. I see it broadly as a way to integrate Line6 products into Yamaha products (including Steinberg's), so we could possibly see both software models in Cubase AND more hardware integration of Line6 hardware in Cubase as well.


The announcement stated Line6 would continue to run as a subsidiary.. so nothing on the surface is changing for the time being.. long term I expect to see more interoperability between product IPs.

[egbert]

Makes you wonder about the patent situation. Line6 got the ball rolling with Amp Farm and may have a portfolio and some nasty lawyers. Seems like there are many players in the market so maybe IP licensing isn't a big issue.

[Compyfox]

Sometimes: it's all about an infusion of cash. We don't know the internals, but it's certainly possible that L6 stalled out, or maybe has spread itself too thin.

Well, I certainly don't argue that. Line6's software is standing still - literally. Other companies clearly surpassed the initial ideas of Line6 and then some. IK Multimedia comes to mind, not to mention excellent developers like Ignite Amps, LePou, Simul Analog/Overloud. The "Variax" system is also somewhat discontinued (or at least at a halted state as well), and with more and more really affordable third party amps (Bugera / Behringer comes to mind), Line6 runs into serious problems.

Their users rather go to the competition, and instead of moving forward, they sticked to their old systems. Which is fine for the time being, but on the long run... not a chance.

Heck, even Steinberg sells a more versatile system like the Line6 TonePort now. And Behringer's V-Amp is still limited and considered crap, but it's also a competition to the POD (actually, if you know how to handle it, both the V-Amp 2 and 3 can sound great!)

So far: the recent Roland/Cakewalk love affair looks ok...

Considering what Roland did in terms of their own software and hardware (hardware wise - only focus on the V-Series, software wise - they dropped the EDIROL branch completely)... I am not too sure. Cakewalk also had a lot of problems spread over various years. Even worse than AVID ProTools and Steinberg Cubase is having currently.

Still... they run fairly strong indeed. But this all leaves some bad taste in the mouth.

If L6 offerings were pruned down to just the top sellers, and support continued for all the previous stuff for a reasonable length of time, that wouldn't be too bad, would it?

I fear that Yamaha does the same as they did with their own software, and what they did with certain Steinberg stuff. While Steinberg is pretty much "backed" by Yamaha, we still see a certain direction of Steinberg's software that is just not okay - or just too focused on "mobile devices". Much like IK Multimedia is currently going.

Yamaha themselves also pretty much dropped their old (and IMO still very good) XG Range. Which can still be considered excellent bread and butter stuff - and thanks to certian sample providers (Luxonix comes to mind), these old sounds are somewhat revived.

But... Yamaha once had the XG Synths in software form. They never(!) released it as VSTi officially. And even inofficially it's not guaranted to work. Then they also had the chance (over and over) to really port their MOTIF into software form - with Backup by Steinberg. Granted, a lot of MOTIF sounds are in Halion Sonic/Halion, it's still not the same.

Then let's take a look at the pricing for Yamaha products compared to the competition in both hard and software. Yamaha tries to prove that they have the best of the best tools, and ask for a suitable ammount both in the hard and software section. But in reality, that is simply not the case.

I can also guess why they bought KORG - they wanted to rule out the competition. The "Legacy BUndle" is also somewhat standing still for years now. The only real cool tool IMO was the MS-10 in Nintendo DS form. And they ultimately dropped any ideas to expand that with MIDI peripherals. Pity.


I really don't say anything against the hardware branch. Yamaha and Line6 can both benefit from each other with guitars and basses. Also in terms of amps (if needed). The Variax project could continue, and Line6 could steal a bit form their Guitar to MIDI modules. Or they could both join forces and develop that further.

Here, it could work. But software wise, I definitely fear the worst.


Vocaloid is another prime example for this. Yamaha created the software, and the concept is actually great. But for the internatinal market, it was long cripled and not really documented (according to fellow musicians, still is). Now, Vocaloid is on V3, was somewhat further developed by third party "voice providers", though it is now pretty much "tightly integrated into Cubase AI" (only in Japan!) and it's still a niche product.

Then I also have three boxes (I think out of a set of 4-5) of samples/loops by Steinberg/Yamaha still lying around (tried to sell that on KVR - nobody bought the content). The series was called "Sounds and Cycles" and was actually great content until Zero-G came along with Total REX. According to the company I bought the samples in the first place (which was way back), Yamaha re-bought the licenses and stomped the samples.

They are pretty much lost now, they aren't even in Cubase's MediaBay stock.

I personally really like the idea of integrating L6 content into Cubase-L6 code is probably all dsp, so it's probably pretty darn small.

This whole thing is a two edged blade. And I fear that Steinberg will be even more bloated in the future, rather than showing innovation again. Really - Cubase 7.5 in itself is not that(!) revolutionary. A lot of ideas are from way back. And now I fear that Cubase 8, along with Yamaha and Line6 in the back, will scream like "yo Steinberg user... want some software from us that will ultimately never further developed? But hey, it's a selling factor."

While this is still pure speculation, it might happen. And I really don't want to see that. This is why I said "grab what you can, and run".

This whole software increase/hardware decrease cycle(?) is bound to produce some casualties, my hope is that especially digital efx-based hardware that many have liked and still like is reborn and continues on in software form.

My vote goes for the S-XG100 as official VSTi or a port of the MU-128 to MU2000 as VSTi (bring back the old XG Sound! More cheeze, less overproduced stuff), an official Yamaha TX81Z (not just clones by other developers) and a good and affordable MOTIF VSTi - not just a half hearted "integration" into Halion.

I mean, look at CWItech, DiscoDSP, BigTick and LoftSoft... among a handful other developers that created great ports and "synth/sampler" alikes so far. As with Kurzweil... why can't Yamaha regulary dive into the VSTi realm.