Yamaha now owns Line6
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- KVRAF
- 2169 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
You make some excellent points, Compyfox.
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- KVRAF
- 11162 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
I would like that too, but it's unlikely to happen.Compyfox wrote: My vote goes for the S-XG100 as official VSTi or a port of the MU-128 to MU2000 as VSTi (bring back the old XG Sound! More cheeze, less overproduced stuff), an official Yamaha TX81Z (not just clones by other developers) and a good and affordable MOTIF VSTi - not just a half hearted "integration" into Halion.
I mean, look at CWItech, DiscoDSP, BigTick and LoftSoft... among a handful other developers that created great ports and "synth/sampler" alikes so far. As with Kurzweil... why can't Yamaha regulary dive into the VSTi realm.
For the same reason Roland doesn't, and Korg did but gave up. It doesn't bring enough money for them. Big corporations want big bucks, and software is a penny business. As penny business, it's better suited for small guys.Compyfox wrote: why can't Yamaha regulary dive into the VSTi realm.
Fernando (FMR)
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- KVRAF
- 2169 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
The whole scenario of Yamaha/Line6 looks at least initially like a 'synergistic sharing of cultures' which perhaps would work best long-term if there's at least perceptually an existant border between Yamaha and Line6 that stays in place - when it all looks like it sours, etc. is when the border 'goes away' under terms that look more like forced integration usually under the insensitive guidance of the corporations' bean-counters (I'm somewhat conjecturing, but something like that seems to happen fairly frequently...)
It would be like if (2) people get married, and then the married couple is forced into becoming one person, with the discarding of redundant body parts...how is that supposed to work?
It would be like if (2) people get married, and then the married couple is forced into becoming one person, with the discarding of redundant body parts...how is that supposed to work?
Last edited by goldenanalog on Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 14740 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Actually, KORG went fine until a couple of years ago - it was even protected by USB key solutions (which was moot the day they dropped it). Was that the time where Yamaha bought KORG?
Roland tried to get into the PC market with the V-Studio and the Studio Canvas. But I lost track if it's actually a VSTi with a very expensive "dongle" (like EMU's Proteus X and Emulator X was), or just a VSTi like with the Nord Lead to control the hardware.
Anyway... I'm really, really sad that Roland/EDIROL dropped the HQ-orchestral and Hyper Canvas. Two really great tools if you knew how to handle them - the HyperCanvas is still great for Bread and BUtter stuff, and i know a musician from the US that really let the HQ-Orchestra shine compared to modern day, over realistic sample sets.
Same with the XG synths. Man, what would I give to still use my DB50XG daughter board, but in rack form. I've seen projects for the SID chip, but not for the Yamaha boards.
And regarding Kurzweil... the software is made for modern day PC's, and it could actually revive their branch. But... nah. My alternatives, a highly customizable wavetable synth. But it's still not the same. I just hope my K2000 (even if it's still on v1) lives for years to come. That piano alone is totally worth it.
Emulations and clones are desired. That's a huge market - even if it's just "pennies" and always a fight against the warez community. But if EMU wouldn't have funked up with the Proteus X, maybe I'd use that now instead of my hardware. Because it was so much easier to control, and the Kontakt version of the Proteus Racks just isn't the same.
One of the many reasons why Hardware still has it's right of existence.
Roland tried to get into the PC market with the V-Studio and the Studio Canvas. But I lost track if it's actually a VSTi with a very expensive "dongle" (like EMU's Proteus X and Emulator X was), or just a VSTi like with the Nord Lead to control the hardware.
Anyway... I'm really, really sad that Roland/EDIROL dropped the HQ-orchestral and Hyper Canvas. Two really great tools if you knew how to handle them - the HyperCanvas is still great for Bread and BUtter stuff, and i know a musician from the US that really let the HQ-Orchestra shine compared to modern day, over realistic sample sets.
Same with the XG synths. Man, what would I give to still use my DB50XG daughter board, but in rack form. I've seen projects for the SID chip, but not for the Yamaha boards.
And regarding Kurzweil... the software is made for modern day PC's, and it could actually revive their branch. But... nah. My alternatives, a highly customizable wavetable synth. But it's still not the same. I just hope my K2000 (even if it's still on v1) lives for years to come. That piano alone is totally worth it.
Emulations and clones are desired. That's a huge market - even if it's just "pennies" and always a fight against the warez community. But if EMU wouldn't have funked up with the Proteus X, maybe I'd use that now instead of my hardware. Because it was so much easier to control, and the Kontakt version of the Proteus Racks just isn't the same.
One of the many reasons why Hardware still has it's right of existence.
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- KVRAF
- 2169 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
A lot of agreement here with you, Compyfox. Maybe we know our stuff (or at least you do!)
K2000 owner myself-what a friggin' superb instrument! Their tiny, antiquated, sound set is to die for!
I have felt somewhat alienated from Korg ever since they dumped the Radias-when I first heard about that, it was: 'you gotta be kidding me...I seriously thought that it was a joke at first....)
The emu Proteus 2000 ROMs 'in situ' are an order of magnitude better then their counterpart Kontact libraries-I have both, and have done some direct comparisons.
K2000 owner myself-what a friggin' superb instrument! Their tiny, antiquated, sound set is to die for!
I have felt somewhat alienated from Korg ever since they dumped the Radias-when I first heard about that, it was: 'you gotta be kidding me...I seriously thought that it was a joke at first....)
The emu Proteus 2000 ROMs 'in situ' are an order of magnitude better then their counterpart Kontact libraries-I have both, and have done some direct comparisons.
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- KVRAF
- 14740 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
I wouldn't call the K2000 "tiny", but it is definitely aged. Love the pads, love the piano, love one of the live drums. It's also my master keyboard (though I do look for a cheap and slim USB one for my desk). Wish I had the funds to get a fully fledged K2x00 rack, or upgrade my K2000 to Calvin v3.x Then I could also use samples as "wavetable", and the editing is better.
Here, a PC port would really, really shine.
The EMU sounds for Kontakt are actually ripped by one of it's original sound designers, and then ported for various synths and romplers. But... you'll definiely miss out some of the routing capabilities and FX of the Proteus racks - which made these devices so special. But a PITA to program.
On that behalf, I wish that MIDIQUest either got more fair priced (and properly updated), or get a suitable competition (highly unlikely).
Oh and... KORG kind of lost the game to port their own "Electribe's" into software form. Image Line beat them to it (Groove Machine). It's still on a very long wishlist of my personal GAS, even though it misses some minor features that would make it perfect (like layer independent sample pitch).
But this is still about Yamaha buying Line6.
Here, a PC port would really, really shine.
The EMU sounds for Kontakt are actually ripped by one of it's original sound designers, and then ported for various synths and romplers. But... you'll definiely miss out some of the routing capabilities and FX of the Proteus racks - which made these devices so special. But a PITA to program.
On that behalf, I wish that MIDIQUest either got more fair priced (and properly updated), or get a suitable competition (highly unlikely).
Oh and... KORG kind of lost the game to port their own "Electribe's" into software form. Image Line beat them to it (Groove Machine). It's still on a very long wishlist of my personal GAS, even though it misses some minor features that would make it perfect (like layer independent sample pitch).
But this is still about Yamaha buying Line6.
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- KVRAF
- 2169 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
You're right, Compyfox, this is about Yamaha/Line6, but it opens up the subject of hardware versus software and how it's handled by manufacturers, etc. History overall doesn't seem to be too kind....
I think that it's interesting that a xf rack was never built, which tells me that Yamaha may have hit a wall as well
If you go original motif to ES to XS to XF, you double the ROM size with each iteration.My guess is that a XF rack would have been so competitively priced against their XF, that it would have hurt them. Easier to build XS racks, and leave it at that.
Looking at Yamaha's position in the hardware game, it took the Motif to bring them back from being a lesser relevant pro synth company, that they tried but could never recapture after the DX success and the platform's natural decline-enter the Korg M1 and Roland D50, and they were at best 2nd tier.
I think that it's interesting that a xf rack was never built, which tells me that Yamaha may have hit a wall as well
If you go original motif to ES to XS to XF, you double the ROM size with each iteration.My guess is that a XF rack would have been so competitively priced against their XF, that it would have hurt them. Easier to build XS racks, and leave it at that.
Looking at Yamaha's position in the hardware game, it took the Motif to bring them back from being a lesser relevant pro synth company, that they tried but could never recapture after the DX success and the platform's natural decline-enter the Korg M1 and Roland D50, and they were at best 2nd tier.
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- KVRAF
- 2169 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
All this is to say that Yamaha seems to need companies like Line6-historically, they seem to have issues just left to their own (motif not withstanding-that took them a while. And yes, you could also talk about their samplers, especially the A3000. But their original tx16w sampler was a certified train wreck until the 3rd-party typhoon OS showed up). It could simply be because they are so large as a company with irons in so many fires, that the only way things might make sense to them (especially at this point) is an alliance of sorts with companies like Line6.