2CAudio B2: Full Body. Maximum Attitude.

[Andrew Souter]

Why the change to light background here BTW?? Not sure I like it! The whole world is getting iOS7-a-fied! It's like a bad nightmare...

Dark with light text is easier on the eyes!

(in fair disclosure, my new Galbanum site is also white-ish... but that is mostly a marketing site, and not something that you read every day and hang out on for long periods of time...)

Dark theme option here would be cool IMHO. Save it in account prefs for everyone so they can decide individually...

Reading KVR on iPad in the dark in bed is like a bedtime story for me... the dark blue theme was nice for that. Now it is like a deer in headlights in a dark room...

[Sampleconstruct]

They call it upgrade.

[wesleyt]

There is a dark theme coming for KVR after the post-upgrade bug fixes are complete.

[Andrew Souter]

There is a dark theme coming for KVR after the post-upgrade bug fixes are complete.

Great!!

[xtrax]

There is a dark theme coming for KVR after the post-upgrade bug fixes are complete.

Yes, Please. It is really hard to find threads this way.

Dark theme forever.

[Andrew Souter]

FYI, last minute reminder: our 2013-2014 Winter Promo is ending in 4 Days on Jan 20th.

Details here:

http://2caudio.com/promo/2013holiday/

[Echoes in the Attic]

Hey Andrew,

I'm starting to experiment with using a B2 module for ER and another for the tails, and I was wondering if you had any tips for best results for realistic ER in one module. I'm still not too familiar with how all the different algorithms translate into real world type sounds. I imagine you wouldn't really need the diffusion at all. I've noticed a few presets that seem to have ERR in a dual setup and don't use any diffusion. It would be cool to have a section of purely ER imitations.

Cheers

[Andrew Souter]

Hey Andrew,

I'm starting to experiment with using a B2 module for ER and another for the tails, and I was wondering if you had any tips for best results for realistic ER in one module. I'm still not too familiar with how all the different algorithms translate into real world type sounds. I imagine you wouldn't really need the diffusion at all. I've noticed a few presets that seem to have ERR in a dual setup and don't use any diffusion. It would be cool to have a section of purely ER imitations.

Cheers

Hi,

I am in LA for NAMM and the Grammy Awards on sunday, and will try to write a more formal response next week..

Question: what do you mean by "algorithms" exactly in the context of B2? I personally don't like the use of the world algorithm to describe functionality within B2. I would say that B2 as a whole is the algorithm. Everything else is a subset of this and should be considered a modular option. I would in fact go a step further and suggest that this should generally be true of other third party designs too. Changing things like delay distribution math, modulation types, or even slightly different changes to topology or network sizes do not really merit calling them another "algorithm". A design based entirely on nested All-Pass loops compared to a design based on FDNs for example merit a macro differentiation we semantically call "algorithm". Micro differences within such frameworks do not IMHO.

This might sound preach-y... sorry for that... but I think it is helpful to understand our mindset in the the design of B2 and I think it helps get the most out of it...

and to answer your question, I should know what you mean by "algorithm"?


ER's traditionally refer to discrete delays within the first 100-200ms of the impulse response. Generally speaking if you look at an impulse response of an algo verb the number of "delay taps" (read single-sample impulse components in the impulse response) per second increases over time. When the density of these impulses increases to the point where the impulse is effectively indistinguishable from white noise, at this point or somewhere around this point, the LR phase begins. This is really a semantic construct based on some psycho-acoustic research. There exists in the real world no magical mechanism that tells us humans when ERs end and LRs begin in any precise manner.

In B2 we have two engines: Alpha and Beta. They are identical copies of the same engine.

An engine can be "ER-only" "ER + LR" or a simple impulse (with MS, dynamics, EQ, and Distortion). The bottoms that control this are next to the Time label on each engine.

IF you want "only ERs" for one engine, the button the the Left of the Time knob achieves that. This will give you a collection of discrete delays that will function as ERs.

Now for the question of "realistic ERs" I will write a followup to that later. I will ask also however what the ultimate goal of "realism" is, and what is the source sound you are feeding into B2 with which you aim to achieve realism? "Realism" in terms of emulating exactly what happens in a real acoustic space is not always the ultimate goal IMHO... it's better to talk about psycho-acoustic goals, and even these are specific to the nature of the source sound to one degree or another.

off to grab some dinner with Sonic Mayhem (http://sonicmayhem.com).... more later...

[Echoes in the Attic]

Andrew,

Thanks a lot for the explanation so far. To clear up what I meant by algorithm - I just meant the geometry shape under the contour control. I wasn't looking at the plug-in at the time, but it seemed to be that those could be described as such. Though looking again I guess they are just mathematical curves. I didn't mean in terms of hall, room etc. as some reverbs have it, since that is clearly not B2's style. So yeah I meant that I wasn't sure how, if at all, those contours curves could be loosely compared to some actual acoustic behaviour or at least which ones (in addition to others settings) might be most effective at capturing the ER behaviour of say a studio room or a bigger chamber etc.

As f ar specific goals, mostly for the sake of making extremely dry instruments sound as though they are actually placed in a nice room. Having gotten quite used to cinematic and orchestral sample libraries which now commonly have various mic faders that can mix drier and more distance mic sounds, I sometimes would like to achieve the same thing with reverb. B2 seems like it's quite useful in this respect, due to the fact that you could make 2 totally different spatial placements and blend them, much as if you had two mics, for example with the first being the much more dry one (perhaps even just some ER mixed with the dry) and the second being a more distant hall type sound. For example.

Enjoying your NAMMing!

[snigelx]

I thought some people working with B2 (or any other 2C offering) might like to check out this website, as I have sound it most helpful in visualising conceivable spaces. I am admittedly green in the area of sound propagation and so when trying to design my imagined spaces I needed to know a bit more about this topic. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... sprop.html

[KrisM]

thanks @ snigelx!

[Andrew Souter]

I thought some people working with B2 (or any other 2C offering) might like to check out this website, as I have sound it most helpful in visualising conceivable spaces. I am admittedly green in the area of sound propagation and so when trying to design my imagined spaces I needed to know a bit more about this topic. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... sprop.html

Cool collection of info. Thanks for sharing with everyone.

Of course you don't have to get into physics to use B2 effectively, but hey for anyone who is interested, this is great stuff. Very cool!

[Andrew Souter]

Andrew,
Thanks a lot for the explanation so far. To clear up what I meant by algorithm - I just meant the geometry shape under the contour control. I wasn't looking at the plug-in at the time, but it seemed to be that those could be described as such. Though looking again I guess they are just mathematical curves. I didn't mean in terms of hall, room etc. as some reverbs have it, since that is clearly not B2's style. So yeah I meant that I wasn't sure how, if at all, those contours curves could be loosely compared to some actual acoustic behaviour or at least which ones (in addition to others settings) might be most effective at capturing the ER behaviour of say a studio room or a bigger chamber etc.

We have "Contour" and we have "Curve" knobs. Contour controls amplitude of the delays. Curve controls the distribution of the delays within the delay range, forcing the majority of them to be weighted towards the min or the max of the range, or to be evenly distributed.

When we talk about "Contour" we should say "Contour Type" (the selection from the menu below the knob) and "Contour Percent" (the knob value that controls the strength/weighting of the contour function. We should be careful to avoid confusion by using the word "Curve" in relation to Contour b/c there is a separate control called Curve that has a different function.

Descriptions of all the various Contour functions are in the manual. Things which start at max amplitude and the decrease such as the Exponential and Ramp curves can be cool for styles of verbs algs we have come to know as Plate and Chamber which tend not to have much attack and generally have a smooth expoential decay. Larger spaces tend to have some build-up in amplitude over time, and reversed Ramp or Exp can achieve this, as can Triangle, and Bell. The Stepped responses can be interesting to loosely emulate spaces with large partitions in them. The Random response are great for non-lin type of presets. They can also be used with large sizes to function like the discrete echos found in some old classic designs. Rand combined with Exp or Bell can be great for really large sizes where random behavior is desired but it sound unnatural to have loud echos late in the tail.

The new AP 1, AP 2, AP 4, and Air filters can be used to add input/surface diffusion to the delays and transform them into micro clusters of delays. This will add A LOT of density. The Density knob with positive values can do something similar.

Modulation takes a LOT of CPU power. ERs in many classic devices are NOT modulated. If you want to save CPU power, you can disable modulation for ERs if you are using one engine for ERs.

Cascading ERs into another ER-only section can give a short discrete/FIR, gated verb or ambience type of preset. Cascading ERs will tend to add coloration to the frequency response of composite system. This is especially true when using small sizes.

B2 does not attempt to do any kind of physical modeling. So the question of "realism" is slightly misplaced. It is better to consider these guidelines:

• instruments with fast transients tend to like more dense ERs.
  
  *Instruments with slow or no transients can sound better with sparse ERs.
  
  *Pad sounds can sound perfectly spatialized with very few delays--perhaps even one.
  
  *Keeping most ER energy within 0 to 50ms can improve clarity some.

ER-only mode can also be used with LARGE sizes and cascaded into a full-engine in B to achieve very complex attack envelopes. In these cases it is better to thing of this as a "Discrete Delay" mode instead of ER, since they tail of the verb may have started well before some of the delays coming from the A engine.

As f ar specific goals, mostly for the sake of making extremely dry instruments sound as though they are actually placed in a nice room. Having gotten quite used to cinematic and orchestral sample libraries which now commonly have various mic faders that can mix drier and more distance mic sounds, I sometimes would like to achieve the same thing with reverb. B2 seems like it's quite useful in this respect, due to the fact that you could make 2 totally different spatial placements and blend them, much as if you had two mics, for example with the first being the much more dry one (perhaps even just some ER mixed with the dry) and the second being a more distant hall type sound. For example.

To achieve a sense of depth and good "early spatial impression" there needs to be some spatialized delays soon after the dry sound. You can have a huge space that sounds very lush, but if this entire structure is subjected to a 500ms pre-delay, the source will NOT sound like it is deep in the space. It will sound like it is right in front of your face and both you and the source are in some huge space. To place instruments in something like an orchestral hall, i.e. to achieve a sense of depth in placement, you need good instant spatial impression and you need envelopment. A good trick to try is to use ERs within the first 50ms and then have a sparse area without too many taps/density, and then have to LR energy coming to full density later from say 100 to 200ms... This follows some research published by DG.

Many of the factory "ER LR" presets and the presets in the Clarity Expansion make use of these type of ideas.

Look at the Tap Display to see details on how this is accomplished.

Hope it helps.

Enjoying your NAMMing!

Thanks NAMM was cool. Grammy awards were fun too. Daft Punk kicked ass! DP and Stevie Wonder! Wow! John Legend and Taylor Swift had some impeccable piano performances too. (Yes I said that out-loud. I have respect for all performers who do exposed solo work perfectly in front of millions of people!) Lang Lang with Metallica was also interesting... mostly b/c of Lang Lang. ...but I am becoming a piano nerd lately so maybe I am biased.

[Andrew Souter]

Saturday chill-out courtesy of B2 and one other thing:

https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter/wayfarer-nani-nani

[Andrew Souter]

New Solo Piano composition featuring B2:

https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter/an ... ng-icicles