KVR Audio

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:18 pm

psmacmur wrote:
Finally, regarding external FX. I came to OSC as a venue to practice modern electronic music production. Eliminating or drastically restricting FX would be true to the original notion of OSC, but kill it for me personally. I'd expect everything to sound like Tangerine Dream. I may be from the '70s, but I've no desire to go back.

Agreeds

V'ger · Post by **V'ger** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:51 pm

abovethoughts wrote:Here's the vid :

That's the one, thanks!

He was indeed using the WX5 also, but the vid is still a big resource for any live setup. As he says in the Youtube comments field he is now using tabs as well. Nice to see free plugins like Insert Piz doing the business best of all. For sure midi VSTs are best to use as they can be saved with the project, but there are some nice standalones like TransMIDIfier as well.

V'ger · Post by **V'ger** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:59 pm

About covers, in my opinion the arguments against to a large degree puts too much emphasis on composition when it's really a synth challenge first and foremost. For me if someone knocks a classic out of the park with amazingly clever sounds and tweaking, it would be just as good or better contender as one composed from scratch but done with plain sounds as it's (imo) really about what is possible to extract from the synth and clever use of it. Part of the reason Switched-On Bach sold so many copies and became so popular was obviously that it just sounded great. People really liked the sound of the synth versions of Bach's compositions.

But again - and as you say - people would use their votes to say what they really thought about covers. If you don't like covers for the sake of it, you could always give it less points, but in my opinion covers would still enhance the competition rather than detract from it.

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:11 pm

V'ger wrote:About covers, in my opinion the arguments against to a large degree puts too much emphasis on composition when it's really a synth challenge first and foremost. For me if someone knocks a classic out of the park with amazingly clever sounds and tweaking, it would be just as good or better contender as one composed from scratch but done with plain sounds as it's (imo) really about what is possible to extract from the synth and clever use of it. Part of the reason Switched-On Bach sold so many copies and became so popular was obviously that it just sounded great. People really liked the sound of the synth versions of Bach's compositions.

But again - and as you say - people would use their votes to say what they really thought about covers. If you don't like covers for the sake of it, you could always give it less points, but in my opinion covers would still enhance the competition rather than detract from it.

I have one major problem with this, is that I spend a lot of time composing (on most tracks), and if someone takes the composition of someone else, it could easily boost their final standing. Composition is a major skill and part of OSC, and by taking classics, someone already did the work for you, no?

abovethoughts · Post by **abovethoughts** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:25 pm

V'ger wrote:you could try this ready made note-to-channel track template for Reaper here

WOWzer - that looks uber handy

Jolly Voted!

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:35 pm

abovethoughts wrote:
V'ger wrote:you could try this ready made note-to-channel track template for Reaper here
WOWzer - that looks uber handy

Jolly Voted!

lol...

V'ger · Post by **V'ger** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:48 pm

abovethoughts wrote:

Jolly Voted!

J.Ruegg · Post by **J.Ruegg** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:50 pm

Hmm. I have see that you are against sampling, In my entry for the Spectral OSC I have rendered the drums to WAV, and then used, and I'm sure that it would sound exact the same using directly the synth.
I have do that because I can't use more than 13 Instances of Spectral in a 32bit host(I was running out of RAM).

Will I be penalize?

V'ger · Post by **V'ger** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:59 pm

Sampling and rendering is only wrong if you get a different sounding result than what you did with the synth, so if you didn't then it's fine.

idfpower · Post by **idfpower** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:08 am

V'ger wrote:About covers, in my opinion the arguments against to a large degree puts too much emphasis on composition when it's really a synth challenge first and foremost.

Several issues:

- in the past many folks were forced to skip an OSC edition because they weren't able to create a complete song within given time (for whatever reason). It wouldn't be fair to them to allow cover songs now - they could have done that and be done in 5 minutes.

- composition (as bjporter pointed out) is IMO a key ingredient for a top song. I've yet to hear a song that scores the 1st place in OSC with flawless sound (effects/mix/master) and crappy composition.

- if OSC becomes just a preset creation & mixing/mastering competition, IMO the whole point of holding such a competition goes down the drain. How can you make sure those presets were created specifically within the OSC time window, and not something the author has slowly cooked over a long period of time? Second, what do mixing/mastering skills have to do with the OSC synth? You may be able to make the track sound awesome, but that won't prove the actual capabilities of the instrument.

- each voter has his own criteria; I tend to give a higher mark if I hear what I consider to be a cool song (structure, themes, etc). I don't give a damn about the overall sound production because IMO it's irrelevant to the composition quality. I'm interested in the creative aspect. You may not agree, but (again IMO) there's nothing creative in replacing the sounds from someone else's work with the ones from the OSC synth and call that an OSC entry. At least that's how I see it.

- last, but not least: a VSTi is an instrument. It was created to make music with. What's the point in being an excellent preset maker if you can't use those to make a good song? Same goes to sound production - sound engineering is an art in itself, but you don't see those guys credited alongside the band members on an album, right? That's because their work, in spite of being essential for a top release, is not actual creative work. Again - IMO.

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:25 am

idfpower wrote: Several issues:

- in the past many folks were ....

...

Agreed! Thanks for elaborating a bit on my brief statement.

V'ger · Post by **V'ger** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:31 am

idfpower wrote:- if OSC becomes just a preset creation & mixing/mastering competition, IMO the whole point of holding such a competition goes down the drain.

I won't be just that as there will still be composing even if covers were allowed. But in my opinion it shouldn't be just a composing competition either (even if it already weighs heavily in the voting), the sounds, the sounds combination, mix and arranging all matters as well.

It's whatever knocks your socks off ("it's possible to to do that with just one synth?!").

Like I said before, would you really score a bad composition with poor sounds higher than a brilliantly made version of a classical piece where orchestral instruments were created etc and beautifully arranged? I seriously doubt it.

My main point is that it isn't either/or. You can have both. People can do covers but they better be good to do well as people will know the score (pun) and be frugal with votes unless done exceptionally well. For the most part it will be a fun element and with the Switched-On Bach album (1968 actually, Woodstock era) I find it particularly fitting for this competition.

idfpower · Post by **idfpower** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:46 am

V'ger wrote: Like I said before, would you really score a bad composition with poor sounds higher than a brilliantly made version of a classical piece where orchestral instruments were created etc and beautifully arranged? I seriously doubt it.

My main point is that it isn't either/or. You can have both. People can do covers but they better be good to do well as people will know the score (pun) and be frugal with votes unless done exceptionally well. For the most part it will be a fun element and with the Switched-On Bach album (1968 actually, Woodstock era) I find it particularly fitting for this competition.

If I consider that a song is bad I will give it a low mark. But you can bet that "a brilliantly made version of a classical piece" will only get 1 point from me regardless. No problem if others have a different opinion though. And don't worry, if cover songs do get accepted, I will not try to enforce my point of view in any way, I will simply walk away from OSC

V'ger · Post by **V'ger** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:50 am

Jeez..

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:56 am

idfpower wrote:If I consider that a song is bad I will give it a low mark. But you can bet that "a brilliantly made version of a classical piece" will only get 1 point from me regardless. No problem if others have a different opinion though. And don't worry, if cover songs do get accepted, I will not try to enforce my point of view in any way, I will simply walk away from OSC

Yeah I don't really consider composition that much, but it's definitely part of it. I know it sucks to have covers but you should stay because - at least for me - this is a great learning experience and winning of course is not what I strive to do - more or less making a great track in a small amount of time from scratch empty project and init patches.

One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread